How come BBEG coming out never have magic weapons or items?

[MechaTarrasque]

From a game mechanic perspective, like everyone else said, balance.

Once Upon a Time, though, demon lords were a step below demi-gods, with cults and worshippers and hell, those cultists had spellpower. Those demon lords were too badass for mortal trinkets! Sure, a weakling like Thor might need Mjolnir because he's too unimaginative to grow himself some tentacles or claws or the like. But practically, if you start carrying around artifacts instead of just zapping mortals dead with a thought, then mortals are going to want someone to stat up these god-like figures so they can fight them and take their stuff.

So Once Upon Another Time, designers caved to these bloodthirsty players and let them fight gods and take their stuff. Thor got 160 hit points and a 1d8+5 hammer that no one could lift. Then players could brag they took down a god, that Thor begged for mercy before they bitch-slapped him and made him drink from the horse trough. It was a rough time.

Once Upon a Very Recent Time,, designers thought it'd be a good idea to keep dumbing down these near-demigods to dough-like wimps who get whipped by a bunch of 10th level 20-year olds who just started adventuring 2 months ago and had good luck in taking out a goblin chief and his ogre. Nothing more embarrassing than being an eons-old near-divine entity of pure power who has ruled an entire layer of the Abyss for thousands of years by facing down countless droves of balor and pit fiend challengers only to get your butt handed to you by Rick the 22 year old fighter with +1 sword and Sally, who has been studying magic for approximately 6 mortal years. Six. And you get a little pissed off at Sally because she still knows more spells than you. In prior editions, you recall having a lot more oomph.

In summary, demon lords shouldn't need magic items. Maybe the Wand of Orcus artifact, if they had left it alone (originally 50% chance to annihilate anything it touches except other demon lords and gods). But the designers caved, gave us wimpy demon lords that leave you wondering why they wouldn't tote around some magic gear to prop up their sagging arses.

In the old days, demon lords would be handing out magic items like candy to tempt mortals. They wouldn't need a hoard as if they were some kind of mid-level dungeon boss. They're out taking over the demi-planes and corrupting souls, and they don't need trinkets or gold piles.

So that's why demon lords don't tote around magic items.

Me thinks there is something too this. Maybe Grazzt gave away his magic sword to your buddy the bladelock....so that means the bladelock's sword is your loot

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

This is why I always roll for loot before the adventure starts, and spread any useful magic items among the boss characters.

 

[MarkB]

This is why I always roll for loot before the adventure starts, and spread any useful magic items among the boss characters.

Yeah, I've learned to do that, or at least do it in advance of the session. While it can be cool for the players to have them roll on the magic item tables to see what they find, it also leads to the opposite of the OP's question:

"If they had something like that, why didn't they use it in the fight?"

 

[Gwarok]

The OP asked a question. “Why don’t BBEGs have magic items?” The answer to that question is that if BBEG has a +1 sword, the PCs have a +1 sword (once they beat him.) Whether the OP was trying to make a statement about game balance or not, that is the reason BBEGs don’t have magic items.

Actually Elfcrusher got what I was saying. I was amazed that a Demon Prince couldn't get his mits on even a +1 weapon. And yes I could give him anything, but again using Grazzt as the example, "Wave" is his sword, it's famous. And apparently they thought the named weapon of a Demon Prince didn't even merit a +1 bonus. That seems a bit silly to me. And if preventing players from looting magic weapons is the excuse for very powerful and resourceful creatures not using weapons they should be easily able to obtain, that is some pretty weak cheese metagame thinking in my book.

 

[Charlaquin]

Actually Elfcrusher got what I was saying. I was amazed that a Demon Prince couldn't get his mits on even a +1 weapon. And yes I could give him anything, but again using Grazzt as the example, "Wave" is his sword, it's famous. And apparently they thought the named weapon of a Demon Prince didn't even merit a +1 bonus. That seems a bit silly to me. And if preventing players from looting magic weapons is the excuse for very powerful and resourceful creatures not using weapons they should be easily able to obtain, that is some pretty weak cheese metagame thinking in my book.

That’s the philosophy around magic items in 5e. They are outside expected progression and their distribution is entirely the DM’s responsibility. If you are ok with your players killing Grazzt and getting Wave, great. You can easily adjust his stats accordingly. But if they designed his stat block with it in the first place, it’s harder to remove for DMs who don’t want that.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

As [MENTION=6779196]Charlaquin[/MENTION] above said, the game isn't designed with magic items being "assumed". I see this sort of argument ("Why doesn't Creature X have Special Thing Y?") every now and then and feel the need to point out one major fact: If you use an "option" in your game, the game, by default, WILL become "unbalanced" unless the DM takes steps to re-balance it. And yes, I'm talking mostly about Feats and Multiclassing, but "assumed magical items" is another one.

With 5e's bounded accuracy bedrock, adding +1 to hit and damage to a demon lord will make a difference in games where magic items of protection are non-existent (or virtually so). I mean, if a DEMON LORD has "only" a +1 sword, then it would be safe to assume that nobody has a Shield +1 let alone a suit of Scale Mail +1. So, what to do? Well, up the + of the sword to make it "worthy" of a Demon Lord compared to a mere mortal...so now the Demon Lord has a Sword +3 Flame Tongue that can Dance on it's own. Now we're getting somewhere! But wait...that will SERIOUSLY mess up the Bounded Accuracy, especially if nobody in the party has an magical defensive items.

Ergo...like with Feats and Multiclassing...WotC wisely decided to just assume "nope" on that. If a DM puts some uber magic item in the hands of a Demon Lord, that's on him. It's up to him to "re-balance" the system/party. Which, of course, leads to a zero-sum game. Which basically means "Why the eff did I give Graz'zt a +3 Unholy Avenger Vorpal Sword of Flame if I'm going to give everyone +3 defensive magic items that make them immune to dismemberment and fire?".

Hence..."Graz'zt uses his sword, Wave." Period. Done. End of detail.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[MechaTarrasque]

It could be that the stat block entry is just "white room" Graz'zt. You know, the one who is just getting out of the shower, taking his poodle out to "do her business", or whatever monsters are doing when a loud, well-armed party "sneaks up" on them. If he knew the PC's were coming, he totally would have pulled a +12 Sword of Overcompensation out of his sword rack, summoned a couple of demons, and walked into a field of poison gas (or whatever demons are immune to).

 

[jasper]

That’s the philosophy around magic items in 5e. They are outside expected progression and their distribution is entirely the DM’s responsibility. If you are ok with your players killing Grazzt and getting Wave, great. You can easily adjust his stats accordingly. But if they designed his stat block with it in the first place, it’s harder to remove for DMs who don’t want that.

darn why does it always happen to me. I just hocked Wave to pay for the misses new dress to the Oscars. Now this adventuring party shows up while I walking Fluffy.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

And apparently they thought the named weapon of a Demon Prince didn't even merit a +1 bonus.

It may not be that the weapon lacks a bonus. It may just be that the stat block doesn't tell you what that bonus is. After all, if the weapon is tied to Grazzt and cannot possibly be looted, then the weapon stats are meaningless apart from how they interact with Grazzt's stats.

One side effect of the method by which stat blocks are presented in 5E is that it's hard to tell which properties are inherent to the creature and which are part of its gear.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Hiya!

As @Charlaquin above said, the game isn't designed with magic items being "assumed". I see this sort of argument ("Why doesn't Creature X have Special Thing Y?") every now and then and feel the need to point out one major fact: If you use an "option" in your game, the game, by default, WILL become "unbalanced" unless the DM takes steps to re-balance it. And yes, I'm talking mostly about Feats and Multiclassing, but "assumed magical items" is another one.

With 5e's bounded accuracy bedrock, adding +1 to hit and damage to a demon lord will make a difference in games where magic items of protection are non-existent (or virtually so). I mean, if a DEMON LORD has "only" a +1 sword, then it would be safe to assume that nobody has a Shield +1 let alone a suit of Scale Mail +1. So, what to do? Well, up the + of the sword to make it "worthy" of a Demon Lord compared to a mere mortal...so now the Demon Lord has a Sword +3 Flame Tongue that can Dance on it's own. Now we're getting somewhere! But wait...that will SERIOUSLY mess up the Bounded Accuracy, especially if nobody in the party has an magical defensive items.

Ergo...like with Feats and Multiclassing...WotC wisely decided to just assume "nope" on that. If a DM puts some uber magic item in the hands of a Demon Lord, that's on him. It's up to him to "re-balance" the system/party. Which, of course, leads to a zero-sum game. Which basically means "Why the eff did I give Graz'zt a +3 Unholy Avenger Vorpal Sword of Flame if I'm going to give everyone +3 defensive magic items that make them immune to dismemberment and fire?".

Hence..."Graz'zt uses his sword, Wave." Period. Done. End of detail.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

Wow, 5e is a radical departure from D&D tradition. And it has fragile balance, indeed!

Is there any kind of guidance on how to rebalance the game when using optional stuff?