How constrained do you feel by D&D "canon"

[Ghendar]

Interesting topic:

My rule is that NOTHING IS SACRED. My goal is to present games to players that are not like cookie-cutter D&D games. Ours is a grim and gritty world, probably darker than that of what Robert E. Howard wrote of Conan. Here are our examples of THE SACKING OF THE CANON OF D&D:

For example: I tell my players, ahead of time mind you..which is the polite thing to do, that they will NEVER face a D&D monster. For example: there are a lot of natural animals and humans in our games but to face a "monster" is a bad thing. There are no orcs, goblins, owlbears, displcer beasts, or elves in our games. THere are nameless tentacled horrors and things from the darkness that you run from or risk 50% attrition from your numbers..unless you have thought long and hard about how to defeat such creatures..and it is never by brute strength alone.

IMC, the gods do not exist..and certainly do not grant spells..clerics are charlatan wizards like anyone else bent on power and corruption. There is no D&D cosmology. There is no balance of gods, one for each alignment that fairly balances power between priest & peasant. Religion is based on subjugating the weak and obtaining power.

Races, as mentioned above, we don't use D&D races. There are 30 or so HUMAN races...just like on earth..but no dwarves, elves, or halflings. I had a guy REFUSE to play in our CONAN game unless he could play a halfling..I still see him frequently looking for a group to play with.

We don't have Raise Dead, Fireball, Magic Missile or several other sacred cows of D&D. PC wizards are weak and will never be strong. NPC wizards are strong, but shallow and easily killled..but might take a few of you with them.

Alignment? Yea, who still uses that mechanic Oh, there's evil, but little good in this world. Everyone has a motive.

EL/CR balance for the level of the party...yea, that's gone too. Each encounter must be weighed BY THE PLAYERS, NOT THE DM. We lost 10th level PC's to lions in the arena in Age of Worms.

Magic items make the character heroic: Yea, this concept is gone too. The whole "magic item shoppe" to placate some material desire by players doesn't exist. It's the characters, not the items..and it's the characters, not their ability scores that make them heroic. Ever wonder why I post all those polls about these things? I test to see what the 'norm' of what everyone here posts, and then attempt to do the opposite.

My players have been playing too long to face yet another D&D cliche sacred cow. NOT knowing what to expect is what got us into D&D....

Hmm, other sacred cows...I'll think of more later..

jh
..

It sounds very much like this works beautifully for you and your group. Kudos for that.

It sounds very much to me like you're not really playing D&D anymore. <shrug>

 

[Stormborn]

It is only through reading Enworld and subscribing the Dragon for the last few years that I even know there was a "canon." I am honestly quite suprised, and often enlighteneded, by the great debates that rage here sometimes about who did what to whom when in this setting or that. I am sure I know more about canon than most of the people I play with, so its a nonissue. A friend is running Slaughterguard for us at the moment (in part to practice her DM skills and partly to give me a break after running most of the games for over a year) and after a bridge adventure or two using the same setting she plans on whisking us off to Sigil for Demonwebpits. Thus it is only in our current campaing that we have delt with "official DnD canon" at all. We played in Eberron briefly and stuck to the world as given, but mostly we homebrew.

 

[maddman75]

It sounds very much like this works beautifully for you and your group. Kudos for that.

It sounds very much to me like you're not really playing D&D anymore. <shrug>

Depends on your perspective. To me, he's running closer to the original spirit of D&D than those that cleave to every sourcebook - he's made it his own.

I don't tinker with player rules much, but I don't feel constrained on the GM side at all. I mean I don't even use normal orcs.

 

[moritheil]

Very constrained, as long as I'm with others who make a fuss about the atmosphere in one town being just so and varying in certain subtle ways from the atmosphere in a similar town elsewhere.

As with all rules, the enforcement of canon depends on popular opinion.

 

[Greg K]

It sounds very much to me like you're not really playing D&D anymore. <shrug>

Its still D&D to me. He just personalized it.

 

[Ghendar]

Depends on your perspective. To me, he's running closer to the original spirit of D&D than those that cleave to every sourcebook - he's made it his own.

.

And that's fine. He found something that works very well for him which is fantastic.

However, my own personal "original spirit of D&D" is B/E and 1st ED AD&D. To me, what he's doing sounds like something very different than that and something I wouldn't want to play in. Not that he should care one way of the other about what I think.

Just because it's "canon" doesn't mean that you can't still surprise your players. It sounds like to me that he's fundamentally changed the Cleric, removed spells that have been in the game for, well, for a very long time, and either severely tweaked or removed alignment. Not to mention other things.

To me, changes like that just aren't D&D. To each his own I guess.

Its still D&D to me. He just personalized it.

You really think so? I obviously disagree.
I think he did far more than just "personalize" it. Seems like he fundamentally changed just about everything that makes D&D what it is. Apparently that was his intent. I'd say he succeeded.

 

[Ghendar]

If i can get back to the original post. Kinda

I feel more constrained by the idea that all the people I've played with will only play 3.5.
Just the very idea of trying to get someone to play 1st ED or RC, and even C&C is anathema to them.
That's quite frustrating.

 

[Desdichado]

If playing D&D (instead of some other d20 game using D&D monsters) then I tend to follow the canon unless I think of something else better.

However, the example above is a special case--I tend to minimize alignment a lot, even to the point of practically ignoring it completely. So the alignment dichotomy between devils and demons doesn't really exist to me; they're both simply fiends who happen to have a slightly different set of abilities naturally.

I also prefer a more open cosmology, so I tend to have archfiends of both demonic and diabolic heritage setting up their own fiefdoms in the outer planes and attracting courts to them that may have demons, devils, yugoloths, oni, efreet, undead and who knows what else kind of nasty monsters all serving them, regardless of type.

 

[Desdichado]

It sounds very much like this works beautifully for you and your group. Kudos for that.

It sounds very much to me like you're not really playing D&D anymore. <shrug>

To some of us old grognards, that sounds more like D&D than whatever you're probably playing. Back in the day, we had to make up all kinds of stuff like that because setting and details just weren't there yet, and the tone of his game certainly sounds more old school D&Dish than D&D itself does, in many ways.

That said, I very freely admit that my game "isn't D&D anymore." In fact, I've really and completely formalized the split by migrating to a d20 Modern + d20 Past based ruleset. I still don't see the point of anyone telling me "well, that doesn't sound like D&D anymore, but if you like it, hey--more power to you." I can't think of any connotation of that sentiment that isn't somewhat talking down and condescending, as if playing "strictly D&D" were some kind of religious ritual that shouldn't be deviated from.

 

[carmachu]

Interesting topic:

My rule is that NOTHING IS SACRED. My goal is to present games to players that are not like cookie-cutter D&D games. Ours is a grim and gritty world, probably darker than that of what Robert E. Howard wrote of Conan. Here are our examples of THE SACKING OF THE CANON OF D&D:..

Sounds like your playing Iron heros....without actually playing iron heros.



In my own games, nothing is sacred. If I think I like it and it make sense, thats what happens. I'm not married to anything WotC related,