How do I deal with a rule lawyer?

[William drake]

I have been playing with some guys lately (as a PC) and I was wondering at the end: How do I deal with the rule lawyer in our game?

The Rule lawyer in our game is a guy who read rules all the time and always claim that the DM's NPC is overpowered and he cheats too much, however if he just knew the DM better, then he would know that the DM most of the time cheat because otherwise we would be dead. He gloats a lot when the DM does a minor faul with the rules and he tries to make the rules favor his own situation. Also he is a very bad roleplayer, we have a nickname for him: Butosei the manslayer (from a movie called bishomu or something like that), mainly because he does very screwed things which make no sense at all and metagame a lot. What to do with that kind of guy?

Get rid of him.


As a Dm I don't mind if a missed rule is shown to me, however, once the rule is set *if I use it or not* the game moves on, if it doesn't and said player wishes to continue the argument, then he may find himself without a group to game with.

As a Dm I don't have the time to always debate or argue my reasons for w/e. IF players can't get it into their heads that Dm smuge the rules for good and bad *when in need of keeping the balance: say, to keep a player alive, or make the fight with an NPC more interesting* then they need to rethink what gaming is. If they feel that the DM is out to get them, which sometimes that is the case after the DM has been continually assulated with rules and debating sessons, then they might want to find a new group.

My style is this.

Players first as long as the story isn't compramised to do so: meaning the playes win, but they might lose a finger or two to do so.
Battle is real: no one is taking an ax to the head and continuing the fight, I don't care what your b.s stats say or whatever crazy feat you think applies. *this goes for foes too.* And that's come back on me before, a player did a crazy attack and the foe died very early. It was both great and bad. I enoyed it.


And the overall scope which keeps me in line is this.
The game, should be seen as a movie: Cinamatic, engaging, dangerous...and realistic as possible without being too brutal. And, when the rules don't quite fit in, or don't quiet explain the severity of the situation, then I explain...and we move on.

In short. A rules lawer is ok, as long as they don't try and act as the Judge...that's the DM's job. IF they want to be Judge, let them run theirown game...and when they do, they will understand what it is to listen to an agrument in a courtroom where everyone just wants to move the HELL ON.

Game On

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Kick him out.

Whether or not your DM could use improvement is entirely irrelevant. If the rest of the players are happy and the DM is happy and the rule-lawyer is unhappy, then it's just a matter of inconsistent play-styles. It's far easier and more reasonable to ask the guy to find a new group than it is to ask everyone else to change how they're playing.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

ranged attacks work differently then melee attacks. If part of the ogue is around the conner, a melee character could attack one square but a archer must consider the entire creature. its a common rule that gets done away with though, as it makes little sense at times.

Ah, me. I guess I deserved that for making an offhand rules lawyery joke and not verifying my facts. Yep, you're right. I see it right here in my rulesy book of stuff.

 

[jdrakeh]

Actually, to me, it sounds like the individual prefers a very 'let the dice fall where they may' gamist playstyle, with little love for (or interest in trying) any other style of play. And, in my experience, I think that's typical of such folks. Honestly, I think he'd have more fun with a different group, and if I were your GM, I'd say as much -- shortly before I told him that his constant complaining is ruining the game for everybody else and wished him the best of luck in his search.

 

[KingCrab]

This thread is not about the DM, he doesnt constanly cheat to keep us alive.

I'm sorry if I misinterpeted, but you did say in your first post that most of the time, when the DM cheats, it's to keep the party alive. I know that when I DM, I am quite careful about matching the party up against encouters of the appropriate level. It is probably not entirely the DM's fault, but it could be that this disruptive player's behavior is partially due to the fact that he doesn't like the type of game your DM is running. It sounds to me like he would prefer a DM that played by the rules and either allowed for the occasional TPK or was more careful about balancing the difficulty of the encounters.

 

[RigaMortus2]

This thread is not about the DM, he doesnt constanly cheat to keep us alive.

Maybe one or two times in a session (3-4 hours) he change the dice result

That seems like a lot to me. Out of those 3 - 4 hours, how much time is spent on encounters? How many encounters can you run through in 3 - 4 hours? We usually average 1 or 2 combat encounters in that time period. If your DM is fudging rolls to save PCs at least once per encounter, that seems kind of excessive to me. Just MHO.

 

[Aeolius]

Perhaps the DM needs to begin the next session with "Tonight we will be playing without referencing our books, so please put them away. Also, I will be using all original monsters in tonight's game."

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

Perhaps the DM needs to begin the next session with "Tonight we will be playing without referencing our books, so please put them away. Also, I will be using all original monsters in tonight's game. And all dice rolls will have modifiers tacked on to them that only I know. So don't worry about the results of your rolls."

I added a little extra there at the end that I thought would be more accurate.

 

[HeinorNY]

To the O.P.'s DM:
Don't try to be the adjudicator queen and learn the rules "a capite ad calcem", then beat this bastard on his own turf!

 

[Aeolius]

I added a little extra there at the end that I thought would be more accurate.

It should read more like "I'll be rolling all of the important rolls behind my DM Screen, but go ahead and roll your own little dice, if it makes you feel better."