How do I deal with a rule lawyer?

[notjer]

Okay, here we go:

Everyone in the crew understand and accept that the DM sometimes allow himself to change the result from the dices. However, sometime butosei wont accept it.

Our DM knows that it is a part of the 'RAW' that PC dies, and yes they die, but mainly because of butosei the manslayer. He is called that because his actions both kill a lot of NPCs and a lot of PCs, and because he metagames in what I would call the bad way: his characters acts with offgame knowledge. When we are trying to argue with him he start to raise his voice and claims that what he does is normal. Last time he tried to kill a partymember npc which was angry because he fleed and let the party fight a delver (we lost a NPC partymember on that) because one of the NPC was angry and did something which his character didnt know anything about. Thereafter he attacked the npc, and I was killed because of his action (long explanation). There was another session, a bit time ago, where he killed a partymembers humonculus familiar because he lost in a streng test. The mage (Embing) saw that and screamed loudly (roleplayed) what the heck he was doing etc., and butosei attacked Embing. Embing killed butosei but he bleed to death.

A side note to that: He nearly always have a character sheet with a new PC if he should die, and to be honest, it happens a lot of time because of his stupidity when roleplaying.

Anyways, thx for the responds, I think we can handle it now.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

Okay, here we go:

Everyone in the crew understand and accept that the DM sometimes allow himself to change the result from the dices. However, sometime butosei wont accept it.

Our DM knows that it is a part of the 'RAW' that PC dies, and yes they die, but mainly because of butosei the manslayer. He is called that because his actions both kill a lot of NPCs and a lot of PCs, and because he metagames in what I would call the bad way: his characters acts with offgame knowledge. When we are trying to argue with him he start to raise his voice and claims that what he does is normal. Last time he tried to kill a partymember npc which was angry because he fleed and let the party fight a delver (we lost a PC on that) because he saw that the DM took the players handbook and looked at the spells. Thereafter he killed the npc, and I was killed because of his action (long explanation). There was another session, a bit time ago, where he killed a partymembers humonculus familiar because he lost in a streng test. The mage (Embing) saw that and screamed loudly (roleplayed) what the heck he was doing etc., and butosei attacked Embing. Embing killed butosei but he bleed to death.

A side note to that: He nearly always have a character sheet with a new PC if he should die, and to be honest, it happens a lot of time because of his stupidity when roleplaying.

Anyways, thx for the responds, I think we can handle it now.

Hey, Notjer. Now that everyone's chipped in here with suggestions, just how are you going to handle it? Yeah, it's being nosy, but you asked for help from us, so I figure we're kinda entitled to know (OK. Maybe we aren't entitled to anything, but humor us, please?). Just curious, really.

 

[Felnar]

if he roleplays an evil jerk who kills party members, its alright for the rest of the party to roleplay characters that dont like that sort of thing and either kickout (of the party) or kill outright his character

another option is a d20 book called "The Slayer's Guide to Rules Lawyers", it's a pretty funny book too

 

[Cameron]

Okay, here we go:

Everyone in the crew understand and accept that the DM sometimes allow himself to change the result from the dices. However, sometime butosei wont accept it.

Our DM knows that it is a part of the 'RAW' that PC dies, and yes they die, but mainly because of butosei the manslayer. He is called that because his actions both kill a lot of NPCs and a lot of PCs, and because he metagames in what I would call the bad way: his characters acts with offgame knowledge. When we are trying to argue with him he start to raise his voice and claims that what he does is normal. Last time he tried to kill a partymember npc which was angry because he fleed and let the party fight a delver (we lost a PC on that) because he saw that the DM took the players handbook and looked at the spells. Thereafter he killed the npc, and I was killed because of his action (long explanation). There was another session, a bit time ago, where he killed a partymembers humonculus familiar because he lost in a streng test. The mage (Embing) saw that and screamed loudly (roleplayed) what the heck he was doing etc., and butosei attacked Embing. Embing killed butosei but he bleed to death.

A side note to that: He nearly always have a character sheet with a new PC if he should die, and to be honest, it happens a lot of time because of his stupidity when roleplaying.

Anyways, thx for the responds, I think we can handle it now.

Dude, you have an ass there, not a rules lawyer. Boot him based on that. Please do not emphasise that he is a rules lawyer (as your title did). It gives the phrase a lot of negative connotations when it is not its fault.

Anyone that deliberately do a PK in my games gets booted fairly quickly. I really don't need that crap in my games. But it is not a rules lawyer issue.

 

[KingCrab]

The DM shouldn't have to constantly cheat to keep you guys alive. Perhaps he should run adventures more appropriate to your level so that he wouldn't have to fudge rolls. A player that knows the rules really well can be turned into a resource for the DM. It may be good for him/her to be able to ask how a certain rule works when it is needed.

 

[notjer]

The DM shouldn't have to constantly cheat to keep you guys alive. Perhaps he should run adventures more appropriate to your level so that he wouldn't have to fudge rolls. A player that knows the rules really well can be turned into a resource for the DM. It may be good for him/her to be able to ask how a certain rule works when it is needed.

This thread is not about the DM, he doesnt constanly cheat to keep us alive.

Dude, you have an ass there, not a rules lawyer. Boot him based on that. Please do not emphasise that he is a rules lawyer (as your title did). It gives the phrase a lot of negative connotations when it is not its fault.

Anyone that deliberately do a PK in my games gets booted fairly quickly. I really don't need that crap in my games. But it is not a rules lawyer issue.

He both goes into butosei mode (stupid action which kill PC and the game) and are a ego-rule lawyer. I apologize for the negative connotation.

 

[Felix]

This thread is not about the DM, he doesnt constanly cheat to keep us alive.

If A has a problem with B and acts upon it you should not only ask, "Is what A did wrong", but also, "What did B do that upset A". So don't be suprised that the DM's ruling are being questioned; they could be germane to the issues you're having with Butosei.

In your last post you said he player-kills. He NPC-kils. He whines. He rules-lawyers. What is it exactly that you want to keep this guy around for? Wasn't the whole point of this thread asking for a solution to get rid of the problem and keep the guy in your group?

And again, have you or the DM talked to this guy about what he does?

 

[Cameron]

He both goes into butosei mode (stupid action which kill PC and the game) and are a ego-rule lawyer. I apologize for the negative connotation.

Yes, he is both a nutjob (your "butosei" mode) and a rules lawyer, but it is not the rules lawyer part this is the problem, it is the nutjob part. It is him going around killing things that shouldn't be killed, attacking PCs, etc., that is the problem. The rules lawyer thing is just by-the-by, and isn't the real problem. That is why I object to you making it out to be the main problem.

Now that we have identified the real problem, it is time to address it: Tell him to go away

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Heh. Actually, the RL player points out to the DM that since the ogre is a large creature, he (the archer PC) can choose which of the four squares the ogre occupies to fire into to hit the ogre thus ignoring the penalty for firing into a melee AND possibly negating the cover bonus to the ogre's AC (and then flips the PHB open to the combat chapter and shows the DM the relevant text).
Your welcome for the correction. Nyuk, nyuk

ranged attacks work differently then melee attacks. If part of the ogue is around the conner, a melee character could attack one square but a archer must consider the entire creature. its a common rule that gets done away with though, as it makes little sense at times.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

about the whole good player issue, perhaps the op should ask why the player changes from being cool, to being a prick when the game starts.

I myself had such a situation a few years ago. My best friend when playing felt the need to point out rules that gave him an advantage (but never the ones that hindered him) he had poor reading comprehension because he would jump to conclusions and connect dots in a way that was very bias and munchkiny at times. It didn't help that he was more proficient with 3.0, so when he did try to rules lawer or metagame, he was wrong about 60% of the time. He also was way way too competitive with a venomis attitude to book.

It took a few sessions, but we worked out the kinks by talking. For you see, he was afraid that the dm was always out to screw with him so he was always on the offensive (he thought a good offense is a good deafens, but being hostel like that wasn't good for the game). The dm we played with a bad dm dm though. So it took awhile to insure him that the dm wasen't trying to him over if the rules changed, and if their was a rules problem, it was an honest mistake, not cheating on the dms part.

you see he played with a pretty rotten dm who had dmpcs that rolled 18 for stats 7 out of 8 times, almost every time (no one saw these rolls). Sometimes bad players are bad players because they had bad dms and they left an impression. This isen't always the case though, but it seems this could be in your condition. You pretty much don't have much choice but to boot him if he is a dick outside the game and inside the game. but because he is cool outside the game, you can talk to him, and figure out the problems.