How do I deal with a rule lawyer?

[Darklone]

Sounds like the guy is not just a ruleslawyer, but an unpleasant individual in general. Gaming is supposed to be fun. Kick the guy out of the group.

Seconded. Ruleslawyering: Ok, Gloating: Not ok.

Warhammer more realistic rules than D&D? Don't think so. YMMV.

 

[Felix]

...We would really like to have him in our group...

Why, if he is so much trouble? You've told us all about his shortcomings; what are his virtues?

...what the heck should we do, we dont know yet.

What *have* you done? Have you talked to him? If you haven't, then there's your start.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I object to a player and DM talking about player #2 and kicking him out without talking to player #2. Which is exactly what you suggested when you told him to kick him out.

Fair enough.

suggest the OP ask himself questions that he may not have thought of. Do you think he should put so little thought into kicking someone out of his gaming group? He came here to expound on his problem and find out about the best way to deal with his friend.

If the person in question is being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk, he SHOULDNT put any thought into kicking him out at all.

OP is here to defend himself and clarify his position. The "a**" isn't. Why shouldn't the accused be given the benefit of the doubt? Is he guilty until proven innocent?

In this case this isn't a court of law, it's some random d00d on the internet who wanted input. From what he said his friend sounds like he's being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk. I've known rules lawyers and I get a little annoyed at the term because it has negative connotations. It's not that someone is a rules lawyer, it's that theyre a selfish, egotistical jerk with an extreme amount of rules knowledge that they use to their advantage.

I have one player in my present game who knows the rules off the top of his head better than I do and corrects me when I misremember a rule. But he's not an a** about it and because of that he's now my go to guy when I'm unsure about a ruling. He will correct something in his favor, he'll correct something that's not in his favor, he knows the rules and most importantly he's not an a** about it.

This guy, seems to be an a**. an unapologetic one and if he comes here and states his pov then maybe i'll reconsider. But right now? That D00d? Eject him.

 

[notjer]

Warhammer more realistic rules than D&D? Don't think so. YMMV.

Well I dont play it myself, but he plays with some rules which is more realistic than D&D I heard from him. Dont know anything about it so please dont focus on that

If the DM wants to retain the option of changing dice rolls, he really needs to make sure players don't see the rolls.

Also, was that 18 on the attack roll, or the critical confirmation roll? Is your group aware that just rolling an '18' with a rapier isn't an automatic critical?

My DM has the uniqe faculty to roll extremly well. Everytime I watch him roll stats then it is great, when I see him playing games involving dices, he's rolls are great etc. And yes, of course we know about critical confirmation roll, we are not stupid and there is a rule lawyer - butosei in the crew. The DM tried to hide it, but butosei was sneaky and looked behind the curtain when he didnt see him.

I assure you that our DM arent stupid or bad, no one complains about him, except for the butosei manslayer. His DM teacher or whatever you will call it, with 30 years of experience has told him that he is better than himself as a DM. Please dont attack the DM like that, but give me (and him) some advice. Im not interested in backstabbing butosei, I really want to hear other peoples experience about situation like these.

 

[Felix]

This guy, seems to be an a**. an unapologetic one and if he comes here and states his pov then maybe i'll reconsider.

If notjer hasn't talked to him face to face yet, which we don't know if he's done, do you think he'd tell him about this thread? You would condemn him for not showing up in a thread which he has no knowledge of? And if he did, do you think he'd really feel welcome in a thread where people who have little knowledge of him are so quick to attack? If he came in here he'd be quite within his remit not to speak, and that because of people, you, who convict first without allowing him a defense.

But right now? That D00d? Eject him.

I think it is simply awful to treat anyone in this manner. Good day.

 

[Felix]

Please dont attack the DM like that, but give me (and him) some advice.

He asked you a civil question about the rules; you said he has a habit of changing rules as he likes. How was delericho attacking him?

Im not interested in backstabbing butosei

Have you talked to him?

 

[Cameron]

I have been playing with some guys lately (as a PC) and I was wondering at the end: How do I deal with the rule lawyer in our game?

The Rule lawyer in our game is a guy who read rules all the time and always claim that the DM's NPC is overpowered and he cheats too much, however if he just knew the DM better, then he would know that the DM most of the time cheat because otherwise we would be dead. He gloats a lot when the DM does a minor faul with the rules and he tries to make the rules favor his own situation. Also he is a very bad roleplayer, we have a nickname for him: Butosei the manslayer (from a movie called bishomu or something like that), mainly because he does very screwed things which make no sense at all and metagame a lot. What to do with that kind of guy?

It is not that he is a rules lawyer that is a problem. Your problem is an unpleasant person. Please get that right as there is already enough prejudice against segments of the RP community. No need to add to it.

Ask yourself this: Do you dislike him because he knows the rules?

If so, why? Because he is a "nerd" and you can't stand nerds? Because he is better than you?

If it is not that, *what* is it that annoys you? Because he likes taunting people? But is that a trait of a rules lawyer? Or is that a trait of people in general?

You can have a player that is an ass *and* a rules lawyer, but hate him for being an ass, not for being a rules lawyer. Thank you.

 

[Harmon]

Not dealt with one in a long while, and I am not sure how I did back then, but if I had to now.

Explain to him that I do not like being talked to like a eight year old, that as the GM I try to make fair and clear rulings on situations. I do not have all the time in the world while DM to look up ever rule, and I do not like having someone throw rules in my face- "you were wrong, on page 271 it says '-that,' you said '-there,'!" If I feel that you are treating me unkindly, or any of my Players, if I think regretful thoughts about you being in my game then I will ask you to go and you will not be invited back.

I hope that you can consider my games a role playing experience, and that you will speak kindly, and maturely to all involved, if you can not do so then you will be asked to leave, and not asked back.

All Players should be present during this conversation, if the Player in question objects then he has decided not to stay and should be asked to leave.

Best of luck, hope everything works out.

 

[+5 Keyboard!]

All Players should be present during this conversation, if the Player in question objects then he has decided not to stay and should be asked to leave.

You have some good suggestions except for this one. Sorry, but nobody likes to be called out in front of a bunch of people like this. It's humiliating and puts the person on the defensive. This isn't a D&D intervention. You take the person aside and speak to them privately about it. You don't expose their shortcomings as a group thing because the person now feels like everyone in the group has ganged up on him and wonders what kind of talk they've been doing behind his back. Nope. Not a good way to handle it. If there's any desire to keep the player, you just blew it as the guy gets up from the table and gives everyone the bird as he walks out. (Of course, if you wanted to accomplish that then it's a good way to go if you don't mind the bad feelings that result.)

 

[delericho]

My DM has the uniqe faculty to roll extremly well. Everytime I watch him roll stats then it is great, when I see him playing games involving dices, he's rolls are great etc.

Sigh. I wish I had that same facility.

And yes, of course we know about critical confirmation roll, we are not stupid and there is a rule lawyer - butosei in the crew. The DM tried to hide it, but butosei was sneaky and looked behind the curtain when he didnt see him.

Okay, just checking. When you mentioned the '18' on a rapier, it raised a mental flag, that was all.

At this point I will note you have two problems with this guy:

1) He's selectively a rule-lawyer (when it will aid him, but not when it will hurt him, or when it will aid others).

2) He doesn't respect the DM's right to make rolls in private.

(potentially (3) He's generally obnoxious, but I'm not keen to rush to that judgement.)

In both cases, my recommendation is as I stated it before: the DM needs to speak to the guy.

Please dont attack the DM like that, but give me (and him) some advice.

It was not my intention to attack your DM; I apologise if it came across that way.

(If it was my comment that D&D might not be the best game for this DM, allow me to clarify: all the other games you listed, including AD&D, are much less rules-intensive than D&D. If the DM prefers a low-roll-intensity style of game, he might do better with another system. This is especially true with a rule-lawyer in the group.)

As for my advice, I've given it before. Basically, it boils down to this: the DM needs to speak to the player.