How do I pick up an item in an opponents square

[Hypersmurf]

SINCE WHEN IS "move action - pick up an item" NOT AN ACTION?

Are you suggesting that you can use a Concentration check to avoid an AoO for leaving a threatened square, loading a crossbow, making a ranged attack, attempting a disarm?

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Are you suggesting that you can use a Concentration check to avoid an AoO for leaving a threatened square, loading a crossbow, making a ranged attack, attempting a disarm?

-Hyp.

Be a cool way to make Concentration more generally useful....

 

[James McMurray]

I'm starting to get passionate here, and I realize that - but this is bordering on some far realm absurdity.

It is, but not perhaps in the manner you think. Contemplate Hypersmurf's question a bit, and think about whether that's a road you want to go down or not.

For grappling items: think about the side effects of your rule for someone with two attacks who wants to disarm someone else. One attack knocks the weapon free, the other picks it up. Or the side effect of making Improved Grapple grant semi-disarm immunity by allowing you to just lose your first attack to pick the weapon up.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

uh - hypothetically?

leaving a threatened square - no, as you can't "not complete the action" if you fail the concentration check.

loading a crossbow - never thought about it; but maybe - failure indicating that you drop the bolt
making a ranged attack - never considered it but failure would mean you lose the attack (as per sanctuary)

disarm - no, as you can't "not complete the attack once it has started" and there is the feat Improved Disarm.


In order for a concentration check to apply, the consequence of failure has to apply; specifically that failure causes you to "lose the action" similar to how you "lose a spell".

To answer your question - If I attack someone who is performing action X, does My striking them and dealing 1+ points of damage prevent action X from occuring? If it does prevent action X - you get to use concentration either to complete said action anyway or to prevent said AoO in first place. Have I run the consequences out for every possible action in the D&D game - no. You have given Me food for thought - will get back to you later.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

... think about whether that's a road you want to go down or not.

For grappling items: think about the side effects of your rule for someone with two attacks who wants to disarm someone else. One attack knocks the weapon free, the other picks it up. Or the side effect of making Improved Grapple grant semi-disarm immunity by allowing you to just lose your first attack to pick the weapon up.

This is a road I may well want to go down. As for the second grappling part - yes, as improved grapple doesn't grant this "semi-immunity".

You do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the person/thing you are grappling when you make a touch attack to start a grapple.

Reason being; the words in bold are implied. The same action can definitely provoke multiple AoO from multiple characters. I would not want to be grappling 1 orc when surrounded by 7 others.

 

[TheGogmagog]

I'm completely baffled Gerion. Either I'm compltely misunderstanding your argument, or welcome from the Wotc boards.

Picking up an item is a move action, not a skill. Hence not covered under concentration. The portion of concentration that does allow you to avoid attacks of opportunity explicitly excludes all actions.

You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. This doesn’t apply to other actions that might provoke attacks of opportunity.

I have to admit, I didn't know the skill as well as I thought I did, DC 15 to avoid attacks of opportunity while picking a lock. Not a bad deal. I'm not sure what other skills would benefit from this.

 

[Hypersmurf]

disarm - no, as you can't "not complete the attack once it has started" and there is the feat Improved Disarm.

To answer your question - If I attack someone who is performing action X, does My striking them and dealing 1+ points of damage prevent action X from occuring? If it does prevent action X - you get to use concentration either to complete said action anyway or to prevent said AoO in first place.

Disarm provokes an AoO, and if the AoO deals damage, the disarm fails. That seems to fulfill your criteria exactly.

But you just said you wouldn't allow Concentration on a Disarm.

I'm confused.

leaving a threatened square - no, as you can't "not complete the action" if you fail the concentration check.

Why not? If I use Concentration to avoid provoking an AoO for leaving a threatened square, but I fail my check, wouldn't the result be not-leaving-the-threatened-square... staying where I am, in other words, at the cost of a move action?

-Hyp.

 

[irdeggman]

From the SRD:

Manipulate an Item
In most cases, moving or manipulating an item is a move action.
This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table: Actions in Combat.

The act of picking up an item provokes an AoO, regardless of whether the character must move out of a threatened squeare or not (which also provokes an AoO).


Now since a character (with a 5 ft reach) can reach any point in an adjacent square he surely can pci up something following the normal rules for picking up an item.


Gerion of Mercadia has an interesting arguement on using skills defensively.

 

[James McMurray]

You do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the person/thing you are grappling when you make a touch attack to start a grapple.

Reason being; the words in bold are implied. The same action can definitely provoke multiple AoO from multiple characters. I would not want to be grappling 1 orc when surrounded by 7 others.

I swear we must be reading different SRDs.

Step 1: Attack of Opportunity. You provoke an attack of opportunity from the target you are trying to grapple.

Grappling while surrounded by orcs isn't going to provoke AoOs from all of those orcs, only the one you reach for.

 

[frankthedm]

I'm not sure if you can pick up stuff from an adjacent square. Either by the rules, or in real life. 5 ft. away is not exactly within arm's reach.

This question has a lot of importance.

Those who say you should be able to pick up objects in your reach should consider the scenario of a ogre who decides to pick up a helpless ally of yours in its reach, a Move Action according to them, and then drop the poor character behind enemy lines.