How do I pick up an item in an opponents square

[irdeggman]

This question has a lot of importance.

Those who say you should be able to pick up objects in your reach should consider the scenario of a ogre who decides to pick up a helpless ally of yours in its reach, a Move Action according to them, and then drop the poor character behind enemy lines.

With 3 potential AoO.

The rules allow you to pick up an object and in doing so generate an AoO.

The rules do not address where said object must be though - so the use of "reach" by default has to come into play.

Remember that a character is somewhere in the square he occupies - not necessarily in the center of it.

So 2 medium creatures can threaten each other when diagonally.

One can hit the other with his fist (which may or may not gnerate an AoO depending on feats/equipment). But if the attacker is in the back of his square and the foe he is attacking is the back of his then there is roughly 7 ft of distance being covered here.


Remember that the combat rules for D&D are very, very abstract. When trying to apply too much "logic" and detail you will only end up putting yourself into a never ending cycle of "what ifs?"

 

[frankthedm]

With 3 potential AoO.

The rules allow you to pick up an object and in doing so generate an AoO.

The rules do not address where said object must be though - so the use of "reach" by default has to come into play.

The rules do address where one must be to take an AOO, threatening an opponent.

The question is can you pick up item in your square only, adjacent squares only or any square your reach allows you to get to?

 

[SlagMortar]

A nit on the grapple to pick up a weapon:
Assuming you can grapple an inanimate object, you must move into the space of the object to maintain the grapple, unless you have improved grab. Otherwise you lose your hold on the object. If this space is occupied by another creature such as the creature that was disarmed, then you can't move into the space and thus can not pick up the item.

 

[Dheran]

Those who say you should be able to pick up objects in your reach should consider the scenario of a ogre who decides to pick up a helpless ally of yours in its reach, a Move Action according to them, and then drop the poor character behind enemy lines.

This would work fine for the ogre.

A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent’s mercy.

If a helpless creature can be subject to a coup de grace (potentially a 1-shot kill), surely they can just as easily be subject to a little non-damaging shifting about.

The scary part of this scenario is the helpless condition, not the man- (or rather ogre-) handling.

 

[SlagMortar]

As for using Concentration to do various actions "defensively", I think the important sentence is in the Special part of the Concentration description.

You can use Concentration to cast a spell, use a spell-like ability, or use a skill defensively, so as to avoid attacks of opportunity altogether. This doesn’t apply to other actions that might provoke attacks of opportunity.

This limits using concentration defensively to the actions I bolded. The second sentence prevents you from using the "pick up an item" action defensively.

 

[James McMurray]

Those who say you should be able to pick up objects in your reach should consider the scenario of a ogre who decides to pick up a helpless ally of yours in its reach, a Move Action according to them, and then drop the poor character behind enemy lines.

That's exactly how it would work. WotC has ruled that if a natural weapon provokes an AoO in a square you threaten you can attack it, so that ogre may not want to pick the guy up if there's that many people around.

 

[irdeggman]

The rules do address where one must be to take an AOO, threatening an opponent.

The question is can you pick up item in your square only, adjacent squares only or any square your reach allows you to get to?

Would the ogre generate an AoO if he tried to hit a foe with an unarmed attack (without the requisite feat/equipment) at the end of his reach?

Unarmed Attacks: Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following:
Attacks of Opportunity: Attacking unarmed provokes an attack of opportunity from the character you attack, provided she is armed. The attack of opportunity comes before your attack. An unarmed attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from other foes nor does it provoke an attack of opportunity from an unarmed foe.
An unarmed character can’t take attacks of opportunity (but see “Armed” Unarmed Attacks, below).
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed.
Note that being armed counts for both offense and defense (the character can make attacks of opportunity)
Unarmed Strike Damage: An unarmed strike from a Medium character deals 1d3 points of damage (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). A Small character’s unarmed strike deals 1d2 points of damage, while a Large character’s unarmed strike deals 1d4 points of damage. All damage from unarmed strikes is nonlethal damage. Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on).
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.

So regardless of whether or not the opponent "threatens" the ogre, if the ogre makes an unarmed attack (again with the requisite feat/equip) the character can make an AoO as long as armed.

Now the rules are not very clear on whether or not you can attack someone reaching into your square (from reach distance) - but like I said the rules are very abstract and if using similar to the unarmed strike rules it would appear you can.

 

[irdeggman]

deleted - double post

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

That's exactly how it would work. WotC has ruled that if a natural weapon provokes an AoO in a square you threaten you can attack it, so that ogre may not want to pick the guy up if there's that many people around.

Could you kindly post a link to this ruling? A couple of my players insist that in the above scenario the ogre would suffer 3 AOs. I say no as none of the three PCs in the above scenario threaten th ogre's space. I'd like to see the WoTC ruling to rule on this in my game. Thanks in advance.

 

[James McMurray]

It's either in the FAQ, Rules of the Game, or a Dragon Mag rules article. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.