After letting you folks pick at the statements for a few days - let Me recap the thread and had out a summary; starting with the origonal thread.
Edited for punctuation -
How would a rogue with a good tumble pick up a weapon that had recently been disarmed from an opponent?
The rules put the recently disarmed weapon in the square with of the opponent, so is there some way to tumble in and pick up the weapon? Tumble mostly talks of moving through the space, but the rogue would need to move before and after picking up the item. He cannot stay in the occupied square, I don't think. Would this require Spring Attack or something? That seems like overkill to me, though.
The actual question here is
How do I try to get the weapon in my posession while threatened and
if possible not provoke an AoO under the rules as written?
What is decided clearly is that if you do Provoke the AoO and take damage concentration decides wether or not you still succeed in completing the act.
The debate is on the "and if possible" portion of the statement. What is clear is that the player is trying to figure out what skill would be applicable to this attempt.
Check: You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention.
Special: Concentration cannot help avoid AoOs for actions that are not listed in it's description: casting a spell, concentrating on an active spell, directing a spell, using a spell-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity.
There are actually two "skills" that a character can generally use in conjunction with any "move" action - hide and move silently. A third skill to consider in this case is sleight of hand. If you invoke any of these at all, the problem is you get to a
paradox as you are both performing a move and using a skill simultaneously.
Use of the hide skill on the unattended object (see bluff as well for how you get the hide even if observed) would result in the item being concealed (potentially) on your person.
Use of the move silently skill is "out of character" for such a check unless you are dealing with a character that is trying to practice "ninjitsu" or something similar.
Use of sleight of hand would allow you to pick the item off, even if it were on another character. It would also result in the item being concealed on your person if you made the check.
Now, the fact that you are doing these things while threatened you can also declare to use any of the above three skills "defensively" - enter concentration. The
PLAYER is clearly looking for
something that would help him, but doesn't know what that is. This is where the DM has to stop being a Judge for a moment and become a Teacher.
TheGogMagog said:
I'm completely baffled Gerion. Either I'm compltely misunderstanding your argument, or welcome from the Wotc boards.
Picking up an item is a move action, not a skill. Hence not covered under concentration. The portion of concentration that does allow you to avoid attacks of opportunity explicitly excludes all actions.
Yep. This is the kind of thing I definitely see going on, and I don't go anywhere near WOTC boards. First off, casting a spell, concentrating on an active spell, directing a spell, and using a spell-like ability, are all explicitly actions of some for of another. Using a skill, may or may not be - depending on the skill.
The portion of concentration that does allow you to avoid attacks of opportunity explicitly excludes all action categories not listed under concentration.
Yes, it does that - but the player here hasn't asked you how does he use the move action "pick up an item" at all. This is where you get off into "reach" tangent - trying to decide exactly where the character has to be standing in order to perform the move action "pick up an item". You read it literally because you are looking at the actual words - not the intent of the core question:
How does a player try to get the weapon in my posession while threatened and
if possible not provoke an AoO under the rules as written?
The "other skills" mentioned above are where things have to start; and you have to be careful not to hit a nasty ugly paradox of inconsistency from "groupthink" reading. Play some Pink Floyd - and remember that most of the been around a while players have a TSR/WOTC education. It took quite some time before the "Learned Publishers" realized they forgot to admit the rule that Saving Throws always succeed on a 20 and fail on a 1.
for now - that's all; gtg
