How Do Metamagic Rods Work For Preparation Spellcasters?

[Hypersmurf]

That goes pretty well, right up until you use the word "If". The rod is granting the feat's effect upon the spell when cast, not when prepared.

It says it grants the ability to use the feat. When a wizard has the ability to use the Empower Spell feat, he does it while preparing.

A scimitar isn't one of the weapons that can be used to do that.

What's your point? I give you an example of a melee touch attack made with a weapon; if you're not proficient with the weapon, you suffer a penalty.

Let's say I have a scimitar with which I am not proficient, and the Deep Impact psionic feat. When I resolve my attack with a melee weapon as a touch attack, do I take a -4 non-proficiency penalty?

In that case, yes it would be out of place. If that were so, it would be misleading and in error because it did not specify.

The example you illustrate is not parallel, because the parenthetical note is specific (about light weapons) whereas the metamagic rod note about provoking attacks of opportunity is not specific (about what types of spellcasters it applies to).

I disagree. I think the note about provoking AoOs is specific - it applies when the caster is using the rod while casting a spell in a threatened area. If the caster doesn't use the rod while casting a spell in a threatened area, the note is not incorrect, it's just not pertinent to him. Just like the note about a light weapon is not incorrect, merely not pertinent, when someone isn't using a light weapon.

I don't consider the light weapon note to be misleading or in error; it clearly states what applies if someone is using a light weapon. Nor do I consider the casting note to be misleading or in error even under the preparation-time reading of metamagic rods; it states what applies if someone is casting a spell in a threatened area.

I note you don't argue that the rod can only be used to cast a spell if you are in a threatened area; why is it that the note tells us "The rod is always used at casting time!" but not "The rod is always used in a threatened area!"?

-Hyp.

 

[airwalkrr]

Here's the problem with what you are suggesting. If you had a month between adventures. Every day a caster prepares 3 of their spell with the Metamagic rods power. If it is a greater rod, every spell that a wizard has could be for that adventure is empowered/maximized/ect. This is imbalancing.

This point has been discussed earlier in the thread and it has been concluded that it is not in fact inbalancing because the item description still places a limit of casting only three spells so metamagicked per day. No matter how you decide to rule it (whether the caster can still cast any remaining spells prepared thusly simply without the metamagic or whether the caster cannot cast the spells at all until the next day), it isn't unbalancing.

 

[airwalkrr]

Metamagic, Empower: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat.

Metamagic, Enlarge: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are enlarged as though using the Enlarge Spell feat.

Metamagic, Extend: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are extended as though using the Extend Spell feat.

Metamagic, Maximize: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are maximized as though using the Maximize Spell feat.

Metamagic, Quicken: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are quickened as though using the Quicken Spell feat.

Metamagic, Silent: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day without verbal components as though using the Silent Spell feat.

Who can? The wielder can!

-Hyp.

p0\/\/N3D

 

[Thanee]

Page and book of the rule that is broken please.

p. 88 PHB 3.5

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

So much for Thanee being explict.

Think broken as a verb, not as an adjective.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Who can? The wielder can!

Mental picture of Hypersmurf standing on a stage with his band Hypersmurf and the Metamagic Rods shouting to the audience... “WHO CAN?” ...and the audience shouts back... “The wielder can!” ... repeatedly.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Here's the problem with what you are suggesting. If you had a month between adventures. Every day a caster prepares 3 of their spell with the Metamagic rods power. If it is a greater rod, every spell that a wizard has could be for that adventure is empowered/maximized/ect. This is imbalancing.

Read my post again, please.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Therefore, Metamagic Specialist should be a feat...

I'm not so sure about that... losing the familiar is a greater loss than a feat.

This could probably be fine-tuned with prerequisites, though.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Twowolves]

This point has been discussed earlier in the thread and it has been concluded that it is not in fact inbalancing because the item description still places a limit of casting only three spells so metamagicked per day. No matter how you decide to rule it (whether the caster can still cast any remaining spells prepared thusly simply without the metamagic or whether the caster cannot cast the spells at all until the next day), it isn't unbalancing.

See, right here is the issue you fail to grasp. To rule as you do on how these rods work, it leaves you with another unanswered question, requiring more rulings on your "emanations from the penumbra" of your implied rules. So how do you think the designers intended for the rods to work in this case? You don't know? Because they never clarified it? Maybe because they never thought it needed clarifying because they never forsaw your particular mis-conclusion for how you think the rods work.

People seem to have a problem with the rods bypassing the normal preparation rules, but no problem whatsoever with the rods bypassing the higher spell level slot rules. Odd that. Magic items break the rules, and that's how these rods do so. Everyone I knew read the description and interpreted them the same way I did, modified at the time of casting. Living Greyhawk runs it that way, and now the official WotC FAQ does too, and 3 to 1, the voters in this poll do too. Odd that, eh?

 

[Thanee]

People seem to have a problem with the rods bypassing the normal preparation rules, but no problem whatsoever with the rods bypassing the higher spell level slot rules.

Well, that's not true. I have a problem with anything bypassing rules without saying so.

And I actually do have a problem with the higher spell level slot, despite the description clearly saying how it works, and have said on other occasions, that I would prefer them to be usable only on spell levels, so that the modified spell level, using the modifier from the regular metamagic feat, does not exceed the highest level one can cast (i.e. like the Incantatrix Instant Metamagic works).

Everyone I knew read the description and interpreted them the same way I did, modified at the time of casting. Living Greyhawk runs it that way, and now the official WotC FAQ does too, and 3 to 1, the voters in this poll do too. Odd that, eh?

It is absolutely not odd, because that is what most consider the easiest (though I fail to see what's really easier there in practice), and it is also somewhat intuitive when you look at the rod's descriptions.

But that doesn't make it the best-working solution, and it still breaks rules, despite the non-spontaneous use for prepared casters.

It only requires a minor clarification, that you cannot use a rod to metamagic more than 3 spell slots at a time, which does not really limit them further, but only removes issues to deal with metamagicked slots, that cannot be used to cast anymore, once the 3/day uses are used up.

OTOH, the spontaneous use errata creates even more imbalances between spontaneous and prepared casters (as if pearls of power weren't enough), and makes the metamagic rods even more powerful, than they already are. Not the most sensitive ruling, if you ask me.

Bye
Thanee