How Do Metamagic Rods Work For Preparation Spellcasters?

[Hypersmurf]

If I am not proficient with a double bladed sword, and I pick one up and try to swing it at an enemy, am I not "wielding" it? I may not be proficient in it, but I am certainly "wielding" it.

Absolutely. And how are you wielding it? At a -4 penalty.

If you wield something else exactly as you wield that double sword, the something else will also be wielded at a -4 penalty.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

Yep. The same broken as in the whole post. Which is something entirely different, than what you think.

So much for Thanne being explict.

 

[KarinsDad]

When they are casting the spell, they need to have the rod ready in order to empower (not to be taken too literal here) the spells with the metamagic stored within.

What does ready mean?

In hand? On belt? In backpack?

 

[Hypersmurf]

What does ready mean?

In hand? On belt? In backpack?

Be the wielder.

-Hyp.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Okay,

From the reading, it doesn't state that you have to memorize the spell while using this rod. That doesn't mean that it wasn't implied. But from the reading it implies but doesn't explicitely state upon casting. Sorcerers have to make their spells a full round which does imply at the time of casting.It does state that the casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity.

Here is a proposed suggestion that I think should change how the rods are used.

They are used at the time of casting. Whether memorized or spontaneous casting, application of the rod's feat/power extends the spell to full round casting. If the caster possesses the same feat as the rod, then the casting is as stated in the book.

The only exception the Quicken metamagic rod. This quickens everyones spell regardless of whether they have the feat or not. Otherwise the application of this rod is an oxymoron.

 

[RainOfSteel]

What do you consider the sentence "You wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar" to actually mean, if not "You wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar"?

What do you consider the sentence "The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat." to mean, if not "The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are empowered as though using the Empower Spell feat."? (This sentence is repeated once per type of metamagic feat.)

"Can cast" is about as crystal clear as it comes.

It does not say "Can prepare".

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However, back to Flame Blade:

I consider the entire description, instead of individual sentences.

The sentence "You wield this bladelike beam as if it were a scimitar." is followed by "Attacks with the flame blade are melee touch attacks."

Since a character wielding a real scimitar does not use a melee touch attack (melee touch attacks do not suffer from non-proficiency penalties as far as I know), I can conclude that wielding it isn't really like wielding a scimitar after all, and that it is only speaking in general in that regard, as it is followed immediately by a game mechanic instruction that covers the situation.

If pressed, I might consider allowing a character to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Flame Blade) and then take Weapon Focus (Flame Blade) to obtain a bonus, but apply a non-proficiency penalty? No, I wouldn't do that.

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Since spell preparation cannot be conducted in combat, and the description of metamagic rods contains an all-cases reference to combat . . .

"All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity)."

. . . that would not even remotely be necessary, not even as an off-hand reminder, if it could not be used in combat on-the-spot (in all cases).

Any attempt to prepare a spell when combat is even nearby disrupts the preparation.

I'll update my list, then:

• There is no restriction on when metagmagic rods may be used listed anywhere.
• Spell preparation is not mentioned anywhere in the description of metamagic rods.
• The phrase, "[...] the spell being cast" at the end of paragraph one of the item description.
• The phrase in each separate item description, emphasis mine, "The wielder can cast [...] as though empowered* by using the Empower* feat". This clearly indicates, for all cases, that the caster is not using the Empower feat, but casting the spell as though it had been empowered using it. The rods aren't giving the feats over to the spellcaster, the rods are applying the feat in question to a spell as it is being cast. (* Or any of the other feat names.)
• The description of metamagic rods contains an all-cases reference to combat usage, namely "All the rods described here are use-activated (but casting spells in a threatened area still draws an attack of opportunity).". Spell preparation cannot be conducted when combat is even nearby. There would be no purpose to this statement, not even as an off-hand reminder, if the rods could not be used to cast spells in combat for all spellcasting wielders (if it were related to Sorcerers only, it would be listed as a Sorcerers only exception).
• If metamagic rods are used by prepared spell spellcasters at spell preparation time, then this requires the assumption of new game mechanics to cover the complexities that arise from this situation. If metamagic rods are used at casting time, no new game mechanics need be introduced. (Thus, new entities beyond those necessary are not generated.)

I feel that the overwhelming majority of indicators in the description of this type of magic item indicate they may be used to cast spells at any time with no prior preparation on the part of the wielder and that the spells cast in association with the a metamagic rod's use receive the enhancement benefits indicated.

 

[wildstarsreach]

The way I would (and do) use the rods for prepared casters, they have to use them both during preparation and when casting the spell, just like the metamagic feat is used on both occasions (once to determine the required slot and once to apply to the spell effect).

When they are preparing, they bind the energy of the rod to their spell slots, which is also why they can never have more than three spells bound to one rod at any time, though they can choose to unravel an unused binding when they prepare their spells the next time (when the rod's uses would become available again), of course.

When they are casting the spell, they need to have the rod ready in order to empower (not to be taken too literal here) the spells with the metamagic stored within.

Bye
Thanee

Here's the problem with what you are suggesting. If you had a month between adventures. Every day a caster prepares 3 of their spell with the Metamagic rods power. If it is a greater rod, every spell that a wizard has could be for that adventure is empowered/maximized/ect. This is imbalancing.

Using them at the time of casting prevents this and encourages use of this rod. It gives the player flexibility. There is nothing wrong with this. You as a DM don't have to win but the players may have to win to save the world. Being leiniant is always better.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Yeah, that's a very good special rule (and I'm one of those who like familiars and find them highly useful ).

I even had a character pick up Metamagic Specialist and then Obtain Familiar later.

Bye
Thanee

I've thought about the same with taking familiar and improved familiar.

 

[wildstarsreach]

With all of the capability in Complete Arcane, Complete Mage, etc., this is hardly broken.

If Spontaneous Metamagic were broken, then Sorcerers by default would be broken. Spontaneous Metamagic 3 times per day for Wizards for X amount of gold is not broken if Spontaneous Metamagic 50 times per day for Sorcerers for free is not broken.


Btw, I agree with you that by a strict literal RAW reading, the metamagic rods should be during preparation time for preparation casters.

However, I also view this as a case where WotC meant to state one thing and was unclear, and accidentally stated something else. Hence, the FAQ is a clarification in this case.

A better poll might be: "When you first read about metamagic rods (possibly in Tome and Blood) and before you read discussions on the topic here on the board or elsewhere, did you think they were supposed to be used at casting time or preparation time?"

I suspect that possibly even Hyp or you or both misread the strict literal RAW the very first time as "at casting time" until a closer look was taken.

Even in Tome and Blood, it is implied badly at the time of casting. Again, getting to spontaneously add a feat to three spells is not imbalancing. Let's say that you have 4 rods of various feats, it is still not imbalancing, it gives the players options, that's all.

 

[wildstarsreach]

The only problem is, that this breaks an existing rule (without any statement whatsoever, that this rule does not apply). The other way, no rules are broken.

Bye
Thanee

Page and book of the rule that is broken please.