D&D 5E How do players know they are in the "wrong" location in a sandbox campaign?

[Savage Wombat]

For the sandbox-ish game I'm designing, most of the hazards are contained in mini-dungeons, not wandering the countryside. So my means of avoiding the problem under discussion is this: each dungeon has a "threshold monster" at the entrance. This particular monster is of a CR that defines the dungeon's threat level, and is not interested in pursuing the PCs should they choose to withdraw. (As I write this it occurs to me that it also should have no treasure.)

Thus the dungeons have a "you must be this tall to ride" sign out front - if you try to enter the Turathi Strategic Necromancy Reserve and can't handle the first monster without taking a beating, you might want to wait a level.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Have you considered just telling the players? "Look, guys, this next dungeon is written for character levels 6-10. Do you want me to scale down the encounters a bit, or do you want to try playing it anyway?"

If you really feel like it, you could even convert the metagame information to in-game information by giving them a magic item which is a generic "danger detector" registering between 1 and 30 on the dangerometer, corresponding to "toughness" of the dungeon in whatever way you want to measure it. (Maximum monster CR? The level of PC for whom the entire dungeon is less than a days' worth of XP? The level at which a lone PC could expect to survive the whole dungeon with better than 50% probability? Something else?)

 

[discosoc]

I say let them. Make sure they know that they can go anywhere and the not all encounters will be scaled down to their level. That way, if a fight seems over their head they will hopefully retreat. I would also seed rumours for the players to follow up on. That way you can seed rumours of the lower level dungeons, perhaps they are closer to the PCs starting location, leading to the PCs tackling them first before moving on to the next ones.

This sounds good on paper, but in practice it causes some problems. First of all, do you really want players spending 30 minutes in character preparing to head out to a location, gearing up, etc, knowing they are going to have to retreat 10 steps past the entrance? You can telegraph things a bit by having some obviously powerful guardian to warn them off or something, but it doesn't change the fact that time was wasted prepping or deciding (often in character via roleplay) on what to do.

What everyone needs to come to terms with is that "sandbox" is not a beach. It has boundaries and you still need to control the toys placed within. Don't place a hand grenade in the sandbox with some 10 year old's and expect good things to happen, no matter how "realistic" those things would be.

 

[cbwjm]

This sounds good on paper, but in practice it causes some problems. First of all, do you really want players spending 30 minutes in character preparing to head out to a location, gearing up, etc, knowing they are going to have to retreat 10 steps past the entrance? You can telegraph things a bit by having some obviously powerful guardian to warn them off or something, but it doesn't change the fact that time was wasted prepping or deciding (often in character via roleplay) on what to do.

What everyone needs to come to terms with is that "sandbox" is not a beach. It has boundaries and you still need to control the toys placed within. Don't place a hand grenade in the sandbox with some 10 year old's and expect good things to happen, no matter how "realistic" those things would be.

Well, if you've seeded rumours and the players know a certain dungeon could be above their pay grade and they still want to go in, then yes, I'm happy for them to spend 30 minutes preparing to enter a dungeon only to retreat when they realise they are in too far over their head. Also, I don't mean seed a rumour which is just "There's a dungeon over there behind that hill" which you've set as 6th level and your PCs are only 1st level. Instead, as an example, you have an NPC say something like:

"I was like you, full of confidence, had a few stories to my name, but when my friends and I went into that dungeon only I made it out, the trolls in that place tore everyone else apart."

Now the players know that the dungeon has trolls in it, they may not know the relative level of the dungeon but they can still go in fully knowing that they will be in for a hard fight and may not make it through since they are only 1st level. When they reach 5th or higher level they may even go and try the dungeon since they've got a few levels under their belt and figure they could probably take on some trolls. They still won't know the relative level of the dungeon but they can make a more educated guess at their survival.

 

[AgentMaine]

NPCs giving warnings of the dangers, and sample monsters in the region that are incredibly tough to fight. Discourage, don't prevent


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[Charles Rampant]

I think that a lot of the advice here is generic. Bear in mind that, in this specific instance, there are stairways leading directly from level 4 dungeons to level 9 dungeons. There isn't much scope for NPCs giving warnings and the like.

 

[Lanefan]

I think that a lot of the advice here is generic. Bear in mind that, in this specific instance, there are stairways leading directly from level 4 dungeons to level 9 dungeons. There isn't much scope for NPCs giving warnings and the like.

Another reason why I'd want to split them out would be to remove this direct connection, which struck me as odd when I first read PotA.

Instead, if I was trying to run it all as the adventure chain it's intended to be I'd find some other way of linking each low-level module to its higher-level equivalent e.g. you need to find 4 keys in dngeons A-B-C-D to open the accesses to E-F-G-H, or something more original and-or elaborate along the same vague lines.

Lan-"then again, a few well-placed skull-and-crossbones motifs with a warning 'abandon hope all ye who enter here' might be easier"-efan

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Giving warnings about danger doesn't work so well in my experience. Adventurers are supposed to face dangerous situations, that's their job! Judging when an area is too dangerous based on environmental clues is far from simple. You may know there is a big monster in the area, but there are many big monsters that are appropriate challenges for say a 5th level party.

There is a way that's nearly foolproof though, the 2nd level ritual Augury. Encourage the players to perform this ritual before entering a dungeon, and let the spirits respond with Woe! if the characters are outmatched.

 

[schnee]

I think that a lot of the advice here is generic. Bear in mind that, in this specific instance, there are stairways leading directly from level 4 dungeons to level 9 dungeons. There isn't much scope for NPCs giving warnings and the like.

But there is plenty for creating a feeling of foreboding, tension, and dread.

"You suddenly realize the chittering of rats has ceased, the sound of dripping water has receded, and the area is deathly still."

"You notice the air getting chillier and chillier, and has the slight stench of rotting flesh."

"The walls of the stairway are gouged deeply with what appear to be claw marks. The stairs themselves have cracked and broken edges, and in some places one entire side is gone for a step or two."

"You see a set of dark streaks on the wall. And...(rolls) it's blood. And at the end, in a jagged vertical crack, you see a torn off fingernail hanging at the end of one streak, and the protruding end of a rotting finger at the other. The end appears sheared off cleanly, as if by a sword. The stairs below - and to the edge of your torch light - are covered in dried blood. To cover stairs of this size would take gallons of it."

Do that over the span of a few hundred feet of descending stairs and that should clue them in.

 

[hawknsparrow]

I started my group in Red Larch. I told them that the world would be a deadly place where the encounters may not always be "balanced." I told them I use random tables that could swing for or against them. One PC died due to a split party being attacked by a powerful random encounter, but it lead to a richer story and now a side campaign (on a different day). Two years later, they are a more cautious but still love to rush into battle and deal with the consequences. I spend more time now beefing up encounters to ensure they are challenged now that they are at higher levels.

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