D&D General How do YOU flesh out a chaotic society?

A "caothic" community couldn't survive a serious crisis like the showed in the action-live serie "the walking dead". My homebred version of "caothic" aligment is to be attuned to nature or primal forces, or behavior not linked with the allegiance (tribe, family, clan, brotherhood, religion, country, personal code of honor).

Other house rule is magic with aligment key can hurt enemies with same one but different allegiance. For example an orc shaman vs a drow cleric.
 

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Dausuul

Legend
On this subject, a mistake I think a lot of folks make is starting from an absolutist position: A Chaotic society is totally shaped by Chaos with no shred of Law, and a Lawful society is Lawful in every way and stamps out any hint of Chaos. This makes it impossible to a) find real-world analogues or b) design a workable society.

In practice, both Lawfulness and Chaoticness are matters of degrees. As stated above, I think a lot of modern societies are built on Chaotic ideals (individual rights and freedoms, diversity, innovation and change), and those ideals shape the societies to varying extents. But even the most Chaotic nation still has plenty of Law in its makeup--a nation with no Law at all falls apart immediately. Likewise, even the most traditionalist, communitarian societies have plenty of Chaos bubbling under the surface, with individual desires and conflicts and factional rivalries behind the facade of order.
 

On this subject, a mistake I think a lot of folks make is starting from an absolutist position: A Chaotic society is totally shaped by Chaos with no shred of Law, and a Lawful society is Lawful in every way and stamps out any hint of Chaos. This makes it impossible to a) find real-world analogues or b) design a workable society.

In practice, both Lawfulness and Chaoticness are matters of degrees. As stated above, I think a lot of modern societies are built on Chaotic ideals (individual rights and freedoms, diversity, innovation and change), and those ideals shape the societies to varying extents. But even the most Chaotic nation still has plenty of Law in its makeup--a nation with no Law at all falls apart immediately. Likewise, even the most traditionalist, communitarian societies have plenty of Chaos bubbling under the surface, with individual desires and conflicts and factional rivalries behind the facade of order.
I agree with this and would really like something along the lines of the Piety system from Mythic Odysseys of Theros to help better represent that alignments exist on a spectrum. Even back in the 3E DMG (and probably earlier) the outer planes were described as being mildly or strongly aligned with various alignments.
Each part of the moral/ethical alignment trait has a descriptor, either “mildly” or “strongly,” to show how powerful the influence of alignment is on the plane.

I also like to think of alignments in terms of yin and yang; that is, seemingly opposites that may give rise to each other as they interrelate to one another. For example, Chaos provides possibilities, and Lawful organizations prune those possibilities into a shape they think is best, but different Lawful organizations may have different ideas for what is best, leading to conflict between them that invites Chaos. Similarly, there's a lot of real world debate over whether certain actions are Good or Evil. Plus, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
A common meaning of the phrase is that wrongdoings or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions; or that good intentions, when acted upon, may have unintended consequences.
 
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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I think too many people tend to think too extremely with respect to Chaos or Law when it comes to behavior either personal or societal. It's worth noting that no society is going to be too extreme along either line aside from utter paragons of the alignments that you might see in an extraplanar society.

In general, I'd expect a society that tilted Chaotic would be relatively flat in structure compared to a more Lawful one that would build in more hierarchical structure. Members filling the various roles in society would tend to be mutable and people would hold them more based on individual, personal characteristics rather than by some kind of hierarchical structural qualification like a hereditary aristocracy. India's caste structure indicates a Lawful bent, as does Rome's aristocratic/plutocratic/paternalistic structure or Feudal Japan's social hierarchy. Celtic societies mix in a bit more individual focus, probably quite enough to pull them well into Neutrality between Law and Chaos.
A society that trends Chaotic will have stronger elements of individual worth and value with the collective units shrinking in size from highly structured castes or clans down toward the nuclear family and individual.
I try to keep these sorts of things in mind when I'm describing towns and societies of relatively Chaotic cultures.

(wow, ninja'ed a bit by Dausuul)
 

aco175

Legend
I too agree with @Dausuul in that lawful societies have some chaos and chaotic societies have some law. The amount of law is the argument. I think we all think of elf kingdoms being different than orc kingdoms. It could be more good vs. evil that separates them. When talking about differences between 'monster' groups like hobgoblins, gnolls, and orcs, I try to place these groups in separate locations so they do not fight over the land available.

I tend to picture orcs as having clans with verbal laws that may change with a new leader. The leader is generally chosen by might and challenges are a normal way to advance. A strong leader can hold onto power for longer. There are some traditions and norms that stay around and may be close to what others call laws.
 

Steampunkette

Rules Tinkerer and Freelance Writer
Supporter
So... how about this one:

A Society of abject Self-Reliance. Where everyone is incredibly, fiercely, independent, and only works with others because it -has- to be done, not because they wish to work with others.

It's how I do the Orcs of the Ashen Lands.

There, an orc who is 6 years old is old enough to walk, to talk, to learn. So they're immediately apprenticed in a trade. They're taught the trade until they're old enough and capable enough to do it on their own, and the whole time from 1 to 6, and then 6 to 16, they're also learning how to do EVERYTHING ELSE for themselves. How to cut and shape wood into simple forms (Like those needed to build your own small home), how to kiln pottery, how to make simple tools for themself, things of that nature.

When they hit 18, they're married. Marriage exists exclusively for children. If you're in love with someone, marry them. If not. Marry whoever else turned 18 recently. Bang it out and have a kid. For the duration of the pregnancy both parents live in the same home, each helping the other to do the chores, gather food, and generally survive. Once the child is born, they do more of that -with- the child, until the child is 6.

Then the Marriage ends, the child goes to a trade, and that's it for the family life.

Loving couples, of course, often choose to remain together. And often wind up having more children, getting married, again, each time one of them becomes pregnant.

But you can also just go about your life, alone. The only time marriages happen is when someone gets preggies and the baby needs caring for.

This is because babies and children in general CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES. They can't support themselves. They're helpless. And thus Orcs take care of children. And if an orc finds a child under 6 years old alone in the wilderness they're going to watch out for that child until the parents return... and if they don't return. Well.

Now the orc has a child. Many humans consider this "Kidnapping" and "Wrong", but to an orc it's just good solid community effort to ensure children are -properly- raised and sheltered until they can take care of themselves. The Orc will get married to someone else who doesn't have a child and they'll work together to support this one 'til it's old enough, regardless of the race of the child.

This also breeds a strong sense of Self-Reliance in Orc-Kind. Socially it is almost -unthinkable- to offer help to an Orc 'cause you're basically saying "Oh, look, you're a tiny baby who can't move a log out of the road by yourself. Do you want help little baby baboo gootchie gootchie goooo?" which really angers them. And it's even WORSE if you don't -bother- to ask and just freaking HELP them.

This has lead to many conflicts between Orcs and Humans, as humans are often eager to help strangers in simple ways.

Now this isn't to say that Orcs don't love their families. They just generally don't -live- together. They visit, they game, they laugh and talk and eat. But everyone buys their own meal and their own drinks instead of sharing or letting the "Head" of the family pay for everyone else.

Though, of course, when those who can't pay, and can't hunt, or can't do for themselves (The disabled, the elderly, the infirm) the community pitches in tiny bits from each member to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. Such things are considered Gifts with no expectation of repayment, and Gifts are the only way to give something to an Orc without incurring their wrath. Gifts are emotional offerings, not practical ones, within Orcish society.

Never. EVER. Give an Orc money as a gift. Pay them in gold, but give? No. Gift an Axe. A beautiful sweater. A lovely pair of gloves. A painting or a book. But never money.
 

Sithlord

Adventurer
I think bad laws can create chaos in society. And are an example of how manmade laws are not the same thing as lawful alignment. Different definitions for the same word.
 

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
No fleshing out here yet (sorry), just a brainstorm of possible broad starting points...

I'm ignoring what the word "chaotic" may or may not mean in D&D, and just thinking about it in terms unpredictability, instability, and/or lack of codification. I'm also focusing on how it's perceived, rather than the underlying reasons for the chaos. (That allows cases where there are strict laws, but the society still feels chaotic for whatever reason.)

Putting those sorts of things together in various ways, i'm imaging a few categories of ways a society might appear chaotic:
No rules.
violent, mob-rule-style anarchy
sparse, small peaceful anarchist communities

Rules have been erased, or are meaningless.
"survival of the fittest"
disaster areas, war zones

Rules are little more than ruler whim.
the capricious monarch
"jealous gods" trope

Rules frequently change.
the governing authority always in flux, such as by coup, election, etc
external condition imposes different rules at different times? (eg, weather-based governance? omen-based laws?)

Rules are unreliably/unequally enforced.
run by criminals or corrupt politicians
occupied lands?

Rules are secret.
no one knows what is/not legal (eg, secret police; frequent disappearances; paranoia is rampant)

Rules are nonsensical or "weird"
alien logic that cannot be understood (eg, "fairy logic")
"outsider looking in" trope

Too many rules.
the vast, unfeeling, pointless bureaucracy (eg, "Sir, you need Form D2-1; this is Form AA." "You told me yesterday I needed Form AA." "Sir, this is today, not yesterday. Form D2-1, please.")
I suppose some of those might technically be considered D&D "Lawful"? But the end result of a lot of those would probably feel chaotic.
 


Thunder Brother

God Learner
So this is my take on a "chaotic good" society.

For my setting I think of elves as essentially being utopian anarchists (hippies, basically). They don't have kingdoms or empires, nor do they have lords or nobles. Authority and anything approach political organization is based on mutual consent and consensus, so an individual enclave may look chaotic and "flat" to an outsider. An elf is free to live as they will, as long as they don't bring harm onto others. That's the one rule, more or less. But it works for them, because as long as the enclave is safe and everyone is happy and healthy, well, what more do they need?

It all sounds very peaceful and kumbaya, but interfere with them and don't be surprised if you get an arrow in the eye and a spear in the stomach.

And since they live for centuries, they're willing to humor other races when out in the world, humans especially. "Such a nice kingdom. Yes, such very beautiful castles. Reminds me of that other kingdom from two centuries ago."
 

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