How do you handle evil?

Well how do you handle it?

  • I'm okay with players choosing any alignment.

    Votes: 30 42.9%
  • I think players who choose an evil alignment are edgelords/wangrods.

    Votes: 11 15.7%
  • I don't understand how a player can make an evil character with in my campaign.

    Votes: 8 11.4%
  • Evil? I think evil is so fun I've made evil campaigns set in mostly evil worlds.

    Votes: 8 11.4%
  • I throw up my hands at alignment because the players are all murderhobos anyways.

    Votes: 6 8.6%
  • I just don't find evil all that fun.

    Votes: 38 54.3%

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
The idea if a "correct" version of any Marvel or DC character feels a bit weird when there's so many official versions of them, even just looking at the comic-book version in the primary setting. When you expand that to elseworlds, what-ifs, novels, animated shows, live action shows, video games...

As bad as some of The Punisher movies were, they all kept the core idea of The Punisher intact (ex-military who goes on a vigilante killing spree when his family is murdered by criminals, has torso apparel with a skull on it). They're all valid interpretations of the character. It's fiction, there's no "real" person of which the facts may be wrong, just a fictional version of whom the facts may be wrong within the specific medium and story they're being presented in. The live action version of Sherlock where the main character is a woman isn't a "fake" Sherlock, just a different interpretation of the character.

Having said that, there are some TERRIBLE interpretations of fictional characters out there.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I really get the impression that you are the kind of guy that chases women out of comic stores calling them fake fans and demand people list off entire discographies when you see them wearing band t-shirts.
So I'm going to say this once. The next time you insult me, I will report the post.
 





RuinousPowers

Adventurer
You don't. You're free to assess the fake Hollywood punisher all you want, including calling a serial murderer neutral instead of the evil that he is. You just aren't assessing The Punisher.
You are claiming that the official Marvel endorsed character I am familiar with is fake because it doesn't meet your One True Character criteria. You are saying that I am not a real fan of the Punisher because I am not using the version you consider "real". This is gatekeeping, no different than if you insisted I wasn't a real role-player because I play a system or edition you don't think is "real roleplaying".
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
You are claiming that the official Marvel endorsed character I am familiar with is fake because it doesn't meet your One True Character criteria.
They can't both be The Punisher simultaneously and differently. The MCU version is not the same as the comic version, which you've admitted.
You are saying that I am not a real fan of the Punisher
Utterly false. Don't put words in my mouth. Your assumptions of my intentions are pretty bad, so if you're unclear, ask. You're a fan of the real MCU Punisher and that's fine.

Ultimately, though, the difference isn't relevant to this conversation. Both are evil. A serial murderer is evil no matter what his reasons.
 


RuinousPowers

Adventurer
They can't both be The Punisher simultaneously and differently. The MCU version is not the same as the comic version, which you've admitted.

Utterly false. Don't put words in my mouth. Your assumptions of my intentions are pretty bad, so if you're unclear, ask. You're a fan of the real MCU Punisher and that's fine.

Ultimately, though, the difference isn't relevant to this conversation. Both are evil. A serial murderer is evil no matter what his reasons.
Marvel's Multiverse makes it pretty clear that there can be multiple versions of the same character, simultaneously and differently. Which Spider-Man was the real one in the latest movie?

It's pretty explicitly stated in the show that he only "punishes" evil murderers, and that Karen Paige didn't feel threatened by him, even at gun point, so I don't get your "serial murderer" comment. If a person hunts and kills sentient man-eating dragons, does that make him an evil serial murderer too?
 

le Redoutable

Call me the Gaspi
It's always a shame to lose a life ( because where there's life there's work, and to work produces richness, and silver ( money ) makes up for happyness ) :)
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It's pretty explicitly stated in the show that he only "punishes" evil murderers, and that Karen Paige didn't feel threatened by him, even at gun point, so I don't get your "serial murderer" comment. If a person hunts and kills sentient man-eating dragons, does that make him an evil serial murderer too?
It's murder to kill murderers outside of a lawful execution. And when you're doing it out of some pathological need, you're a serial killer. Just like Dexter who was also evil.
 


RuinousPowers

Adventurer
It's murder to kill murderers outside of a lawful execution. And when you're doing it out of some pathological need, you're a serial killer. Just like Dexter who was also evil.
You're talking legality, not morality. And no one was talking about Dexter-a character that changed radically as the show went on from someone who was merely aping human emotions to one who was capable of true love.

What was your answer on my dragonslaying question?
 

BrokenTwin

Biological Disaster
They can't both be The Punisher simultaneously and differently. The MCU version is not the same as the comic version, which you've admitted.
They... can though? Hades in Percy Jackson and the Olympians is a VERY different version of the mythological character than Hades in Disney's Hercules, which is a very different version than Hades in SuperGiantGames' Hades. They're not the same version of the character, but that doesn't mean any of them beyond the original 'worshipped in ancient Greece' (and even that one had a lot of different versions) are fake Hades.
Ultimately, though, the difference isn't relevant to this conversation. Both are evil. A serial murderer is evil no matter what his reasons.
Can't really argue with you here. Personally, every exposure I've had to The Punisher has left me with the impression that he's just a hyper-masculine revenge fantasy with a veneer of Good Guy polish on top to make him acceptable to the masses.

That's one of the issues I have with the whole debate, honestly. What counts a "Good" or "Evil" gets more and more nebulous the further into the weeds you get. Is killing someone evil when you know that killing them will save more lives at that exact moment (killing a suicide bomber before they can detonate)? What about killing someone when you know that killing them will save more lives down the line (killing someone who intends to become a suicide bomber)? On what criteria are you basing that assessment on?

In Frank Castle's case, I could easily argue that the character is evil, as vigilante murder is his immediate solution, and he never seems to actually care about proactively protecting or reforming people, just killing those he decided are bad. He's not motivated by helping people, but hurting them. But then, I can't say that's true of every version of the character.
 

RuinousPowers

Adventurer
In Frank Castle's case, I could easily argue that the character is evil, as vigilante murder is his immediate solution, and he never seems to actually care about proactively protecting or reforming people, just killing those he decided are bad. He's not motivated by helping people, but hurting them. But then, I can't say that's true of every version of the character.
I'm not arguing that Castle is a good guy, because he clearly isn't. I am just stating that I don't put "killing murderers" into the alignment category of "evil". Evil, to me, is defined by hurting the innocent and defenseless, which Castle is clearly not doing.
 

le Redoutable

Call me the Gaspi
I'm not arguing that Castle is a good guy, because he clearly isn't. I am just stating that I don't put "killing murderers" into the alignment category of "evil". Evil, to me, is defined by hurting the innocent and defenseless, which Castle is clearly not doing.
ehhh ! it is good material here :)
( I wanted to push you all to LE as in Judge Dredd ) ,
if to care for the innocent and helpless is from LG, hence implying there is the opposite,
then LE should use contracts ??
 

le Redoutable

Call me the Gaspi
( do you notice the difference in intensity level than with most of my posts )
( obviously it is because I dislike being overriden by unknown soldiers )
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
You're talking legality, not morality.
The reason it's illegal, is that it's immoral. Murder is immoral, regardless of reason.
And no one was talking about Dexter-a character that changed radically as the show went on from someone who was merely aping human emotions to one who was capable of true love.
I don't believe he ever knew true love. He modeled it after a fashion, but he screwed up things badly for everyone he "loved" because he wasn't capable of true understanding.
What was your answer on my dragonslaying question?
I didn't see it.
 

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