D&D 5E How do you handle secret doors?

[Li Shenron]

Sure, but why get rid of the fun stuff?

Honestly, 90% of secret doors add nothing to the game except frustration. Do they sometimes make sense from a narrative standpoint? Sure. Do they create interesting play scenarios? Almost never.

They’re an artifact from early editions of the game which were focused on dungeon delving and involve exploration turns and wandering monster checks and resource management.

Removed from that mode of play, all they really appear to be is a roadblock for progression gated behind a skill check. Or in the case of some GMs, behind arbitrarily specific action declarations like “I run my hand along the underside of the fireplace mantle”.

If the game isn’t focused on delving, then the interesting stuff is likely whatever’s behind the door, not just finding the door. Skip that nonsense and get on with it, I say.

There’s already far too much “not quite yet” in D&D. No reason to find additional spots to insert more.

If you and all your players don't like it, you are not wrong at getting rid of it, but you could also try playing it differently. I don't have fun with a gating skill check, but I get a lot of fun from description-based exploration where you have to think instead of roll. Finding the door IS more interesting to me than what's behind, unless what's behind is another challenge. If you can manage to design it as an imaginary "escape room" kind of challenge, you may find more players than you think can have fun with it.

 

[Umbran]

I still want the player to make at least some decision in order to find it.

You, of course, can do you. But folks notice things they aren't actively looking for all the time, so I think the passive score is a fine way to model that.

 

[Hriston]

In 5e, there is no default procedure for secret doors afaik.

I ask my players to describe exactly what they are doing, and if they are doing a thing that might reasonably find the secret door, I'll let them find it and describe how the opening mechanism is hidden (so they could use again if they want). If they are doing something sort of close, then I'll let them roll perception or investigation.

How do you handle?

I resolve a declared action to search for a secret door the same as any declared action. First, is it within genre that a secret door might be present and could be found in the current situation (pretty much always true in a dungeon or similar environment), and do the PCs have the necessary fictional positioning to do such a thing? If the answer to both questions is yes, then a Wisdom (Perception) check to discover the location of a secret door is in order unless the situation is so free of stress that they just find it. My default DC for this is 18.

Now, if I've placed a secret door somewhere to be found, I'll telegraph its presence, and if the players declare or have declared any actions to search for such doors, I'll call for a DC 15 Wisdom (Perception) check to notice it, again with the caveat that if there's no meaningful consequence of failure, they just find it.

In either case, to discover how to open the door then requires a DC 15 Intelligence (Investigation) check as long as there's a consequence for failure. If not, they just figure it out.

(Edited because I forgot which DCs I use.)

 

[robus]

Use the characters’ passive Wisdom (Perception) scores to determine whether anyone in the party notices a secret door without actively searching for it. Characters can also find a secret door by actively searching the location where the door is hidden and succeeding on a Wisdom (Perception) check. To set an appropriate DC for the check, see chapter 8.

Incredible to see WotC also trip over the word passive and assume that the opposite is “active”. The characters are always actively doing stuff, just one is over time and the other is instant. What an unhelpful word choice for such a fundamental aspect of the game.

 

[jasper]

I can't tell you. Like the doors. It is a secret.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Incredible to see WotC also trip over the word passive and assume that the opposite is “active”. The characters are always actively doing stuff, just one is over time and the other is instant. What an unhelpful word choice for such a fundamental aspect of the game.

Well, it makes sense if you include the players. “Active” means the player declares an action, “Passive” means they have not.

And, honestly, trying to differentiate between “instant” and “over time” opens a can of worms.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Perhaps I was unclear in the post - these clues are either placed in a larger description full of other details; or what the players glean from a successful skill check (e.g. perception or investigation). The players then need to describe how they search and what they do to uncover specifics; or ask for more detail about things they've already noticed. (And hope they've understood the clues correctly to be a secret door rather than a trap). "What do the scratches look like?" "I press on the wall stones with my 10-ft pole." "I knock on the walls". "I scour the hallway ahead and behind for something like a panel, button, or lever." "I try to wiggle the sconces." Further information provided as appropriate that, if I'm doing my job correctly, leads them in the right direction. The situation becomes a puzzle of sorts, as you were discussing. Of course, the whole exchange needs to be simple enough to take up only a minute or two or one runs the risk of boring the players and/or losing their attention.

I think the difference with my approach…or really should say the approach I like to use if I have the time…is that I don’t want secret doors to take up just a minute or two. I find they are most exciting when they are like that NPC who at first seems like decor, but is revealed to be integral to the plot.

I think secret doors became part of the game because in fiction (books, movies) they are so exciting. But, like traps, if we try to adhere too closely to the way they are used in fiction we find it just doesn’t work as well in RPG format. (Excepting maybe the very first time.)

I don’t have it all figured out by any stretch, but I’m keenly interested in the problem of making traps and secret doors centerpieces of adventures, not just quickly forgotten decoration.

If my players are reminiscing (as gamers are wont to do) and “Remember that time…” involves a trap or secret door, I am succeeding.

 

[Oofta]

Whenever going through a location I establish how quickly they are going and then adjust passive values as necessary. I don't have an exact formula because I only use things like hidden doors where it's thematically appropriate and I don't remember the last time I ran a standard "mad mage dungeons".

So roughly

• Moving quickly: double timing it through a corridor, you probably aren't going to notice anything. I may ask for a single perception check with disadvantage depending on the situation.
• Quick search: the team is actually looking for things and are suspicious but don't have much time to do it. Passive -5 representing disadvantage. This is basically walking through the area looking closely, maybe tapping a wall here and there but not spending more than a minute or two in a room.
• Casual search: standard take a bit to do searches so just use passive values
• Careful search: taking as much time as you need, the PCs will frequently just find whatever it is they are looking for if they are not being careful to hide their tracks. Looking for secret doors? Start bashing walls. If trying to minimize signs of the search it's passive +5.

In all cases if they do notice something I may zoom in on the detail they noticed and go into a more step by step investigation. Depends on what they noticed, what mood I'm trying to set, if there's traps, the group and so on.

 

[robus]

Well, it makes sense if you include the players. “Active” means the player declares an action, “Passive” means they have not.

And, honestly, trying to differentiate between “instant” and “over time” opens a can of worms.

You could think that, but the quote specifically says “characters”. And the difference between “in the moment“ and “over time” is precisely what is being differentiated by passive and non-passive checks.

 

[Bill Zebub]

You could think that, but the quote specifically says “characters”. And the difference between “in the moment“ and “over time” is precisely what is being differentiated by passive and non-passive checks.

So “characters who spend more than a few minutes in the room might notice….”, triggering a passive perception check, would be invalid?

Or what about only making a passive perception of characters are moving through a corridor slowly, with no check if they are moving quickly?

Whether the perception is active or passive, the actual noticing of the thing is nearly instantaneous. And whether you are intentionally searching or not, it still occurs over time. So I don’t think the duration is relevant.

But whatever. I can’t imagine this on the list of 1,000 most important issues either of us is facing today.

(My number 813 is the thread on persuading PCs)