D&D 5E How do you handle someone who is not surprised but is unaware of any threats?

[Umbran]

One of the characters I am DMing for has an insane +11 to initiative and the alert feat which prevents surprise.

So how do you handle it when she does not see and is not aware of any adversaries, is not surprised because of the feat but goes first in a round?

The first thing to do is to remember that if the character just declares a readied action, they'll be able to get a shot off at the first thing to pop into their field of vision anyway.

The second thing is to decide for yourself what "surprise" means. The rules say, "Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter." Since the character cannot be surprised, it is reasonable to decide that means she does notice a threat.

I don't think "your spider-sense is tingling" is sufficient. They actually notice a threat. They hear, or see, something that seems threatening at that last moment - exactly what that means will depend on the situation.

 

[Flamestrike]

The first thing to do is to remember that if the character just declares a readied action, they'll be able to get a shot off at the first thing to pop into their field of vision anyway.

The DMs issue was that he wasnt prepared to explain to the PCs what was triggering the initiative check. Why ready an action to do something, when there is no information to go on as to why you need to?

Example (how not to do it from a DM perspective)

DM (noting hidden monsters in ambush): OK, as you walk through the forest... roll initiative!
Players (in unison): Huh? Why?
DM: You dont know why. Just roll.
Players: Ummm... OK (roll).
DM: OK Player 1, you go first and due to the Alert feat, you're not surprised. What do you do?
Player 1: What do I notice?
DM: (noting hidden monsters have yet to attack) Nothing. Nothing has changed from a few seconds ago.
Player 1: (correctly refusing to meta-game) Oh... OK. Well I guess I keep doing what I was doing before you called for initiative.

I've seen DMs do exactly the above before.

It should be:

DM (noting hidden monsters in ambush): OK, as you walk through the forest, suddenly the whistle of arrows can be heard in the air, and you see movement from the trees all around you. A black fletched arrow thunks into a tree near the Wizard. You're all surprised. Roll initiative!
Players: (Roll initiative).
DM: OK Player 1, you go first and due to the Alert feat, you're not surprised. What do you do?
Player 1: Can I see these archers?
DM: (noting monsters are hidden) No, they're still currently hidden from you. You can take the Search action to try and locate them if you want?
Player 1: Nah screw that, I'll cast Mirror Image, and leap for cover behind that tree 20' away.

The problem stems from the DMs lack of narration in example 1 to signify the transition from narrative time to combat time. If he used a different approach at the transition phase, his problems totally disappear.

 

[clearstream]

One of the characters I am DMing for has an insane +11 to initiative and the alert feat which prevents surprise.

So how do you handle it when she does not see and is not aware of any adversaries, is not surprised because of the feat but goes first in a round?

For example at the last gaming session there were some ettercaps and giant spiders that snuck up on the party as they were searching the woods. No one in the party noticed them. In normal circumstances this is easy - everyone is surprised. The problem here is she can't be surprised but the round starts with her (she got a 27 initiative on this particular battle). So I have everyone roll initiative and ask her what she is doing since she goes first.

The way I have been handling it is "you sense something is amiss" with no further details and then let her move take an action, or whatever. Usually she draws a weapon moves to a favorable location and either takes a ready action (I attack the first enemy I see) or she takes a dodge action.

Alert does not prevent surprise. It prevents the effects of surprise.

 

[Coroc]

One of the characters I am DMing for has an insane +11 to initiative and the alert feat which prevents surprise.

So how do you handle it when she does not see and is not aware of any adversaries, is not surprised because of the feat but goes first in a round?

For example at the last gaming session there were some ettercaps and giant spiders that snuck up on the party as they were searching the woods. No one in the party noticed them. In normal circumstances this is easy - everyone is surprised. The problem here is she can't be surprised but the round starts with her (she got a 27 initiative on this particular battle). So I have everyone roll initiative and ask her what she is doing since she goes first.

The way I have been handling it is "you sense something is amiss" with no further details and then let her move take an action, or whatever. Usually she draws a weapon moves to a favorable location and either takes a ready action (I attack the first enemy I see) or she takes a dodge action.

She is not surprised and invested heavy for it, so, no problem at all, (unless she oneshots the bbeg- magic user before he can even get one spell out, that is ) but the rest of the group is surprised, so let her act first and then the rest of the group gets it by whatever ettercap and spider is still around.

 

[Shiroiken]

I tell the player that they sense something is wrong, and give them the option to take their turn normally or wait until after something happens. I had a wolf totem barbarian who would smell something in the air when he avoided surprise by raging.

 

[clearstream]

One of the characters I am DMing for has an insane +11 to initiative and the alert feat which prevents surprise.

So how do you handle it when she does not see and is not aware of any adversaries, is not surprised because of the feat but goes first in a round?

For example at the last gaming session there were some ettercaps and giant spiders that snuck up on the party as they were searching the woods. No one in the party noticed them. In normal circumstances this is easy - everyone is surprised. The problem here is she can't be surprised but the round starts with her (she got a 27 initiative on this particular battle). So I have everyone roll initiative and ask her what she is doing since she goes first.

The way I have been handling it is "you sense something is amiss" with no further details and then let her move take an action, or whatever. Usually she draws a weapon moves to a favorable location and either takes a ready action (I attack the first enemy I see) or she takes a dodge action.

The relevant text is "You can't be surprised while you are conscious." In 5e, surprise functions mechanically like a condition (and I have no idea why they did not make it one!) The effects of surprise are that "you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends."

So when a character with Alert goes before the adversaries that would surprise them (but can't due to Alert), they should mechanically get no benefit beyond immunity to the effects of surprise. Necessarily, at the table they will have to have some clue that combat is started - a sound, smell or visual hint - but that's really all. Alert doesn't grant special knowledge.

They'll therefore have to act on incomplete information. Their spider-sense is tingling, but they don't necessarily know why. What Alert does for them is that even if their friends are going to suffer the effects of surprise, they won't. But those effects are limited to losing an action and preventing reaction (and there are some abilities that look for the surprised state).

With that all in mind, @dnd4vr outlines a good approach. The DM describes a cause for combat to start: a snapped twig, a rustling leaf, a bow's twang, a disgusting stench in the air. Initiative is rolled. Whatever the character with Alert rolls for initiative, they won't suffer the effects of surprise.

 

[clearstream]

Make the question harder by making the ambushing enemies be invisible and inaudible (let's imagine some form of incorporeal undead that happens to be invisible).

In such a situation, even imagining things happening more or less simultaneously in most battles, you get a situation where it doesn't make as much sense to pre-narrate what a monster is doing, as there likely won't be any visual or auditory clues other than a nasty glow as your life is being stolen from you or such.

Now, there are two ways to handle this. The first is to try really hard to find ways to make sure that can't actually happen. You assume that attacks cannot happen without giving a prior indicator. The second is to acknowledge that attacks can happen without any prior indication, and find a way to describe the surprised or not surprised state given that setup (the spidey-sense idea of something feeling off, tends to almost always be an effective answer with that version).

While I might use the first approach if it is easy to explain, I tend to prefer the second approach if the first approach is tricky, because it always works.

I agree with you! Add to the mix an Alert character that has really low Perception.

Players must know combat has started - that's unavoidable - but all that takes is a bad feeling.

 

[Flamestrike]

The relevant text is "You can't be surprised while you are conscious." In 5e, surprise functions mechanically like a condition (and I have no idea why they did not make it one!)

I get why 'hidden' isnt a condition (it's relative). Surprised should have been though.

 

[Xetheral]

I am actually curious how often there is a round where some of the participants in an encounter (on either side) are surprised. A few monsters are built for it, such as gargoyles, but literal ambushes have been rare in my experience.

At my table, the most common ways for combat to start are social encounters that turn violent or one side trying to ambush the other. And in the latter case, more often than not it's the PCs trying to ambush their opponents.

 

[Oofta]

"Your spidey-sense is tingling."

"Wait...like I get the sense that something dangerous is about to happen?"

"No, you detect spiders."

Considering that spiders in D&d can be the size of a horse, that could be quite terrifying.