D&D 5E How do you handle someone who is not surprised but is unaware of any threats?

[Flamestrike]

Or "you saw something out of the corner of your eye in that (waves over psrt of the battle mat) area of the brush."

Or "you hear a twig snap and a muffled curse".

"You hear the twang of bowstrings" (and you get to act before they hit).

"In the rustling of the leaves you hear a whisper; danger."

"You see a squirrel-hawk stop its pursuit of a rabbit-turtle; it saw something."

The Ogre charges from its place of hiding, bellowing a war cry as it does so. Roll initiative.

You hear the click of a crossbow being fired from somewhere nearby. Roll initiative.

As you walk through the forest, arrows start to rain down all around you, and a trumpet blast fills the air. Roll initiative.

A personal pet peeve of mine is when a DM asks for initiative, but doesnt tell the players why (fails to narrate the switch to narrative to combat time).

In the case of a hidden, ambushing enemy that is a little more tricky (narrating the transition, without revealing the monsters position), but it's always possible.

 

[Voadam]

The way I have been handling it is "you sense something is amiss" with no further details and then let her move take an action, or whatever. Usually she draws a weapon moves to a favorable location and either takes a ready action (I attack the first enemy I see) or she takes a dodge action.

That seems perfectly reasonable. They get their speedy action in the surprise round and ready their counterattack or take their generic defensive action or cast a spell without knowing specifics like the hidden enemies.

I have not seen alertness in play in 5e yet but I expect I would handle it the same.

 

[Oofta]

The Ogre charges from its place of hiding, bellowing a war cry as it does so. Roll initiative.

You hear the click of a crossbow being fired from somewhere nearby. Roll initiative.

As you walk through the forest, arrows start to rain down all around you, and a trumpet blast fills the air. Roll initiative.

A personal pet peeve of mine is when a DM asks for initiative, but doesnt tell the players why (fails to narrate the switch to narrative to combat time).

In the case of a hidden, ambushing enemy that is a little more tricky (narrating the transition, without revealing the monsters position), but it's always possible.

In 90% of cases this is true in my campaign, maybe even more. Being surprised by the enemy is quite rare, although not realizing someone is going to attack (you thought you were just chatting) is more common.

 

[FrogReaver]

This conundrum arises because perception and reflexes are separate things in D&D and reacting to a threat really requires some degree of both. In this case I would rule that you see the spiders before they are able to strike and you react fast enough to act before they do anything meaningful.

The DM controls the narration.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I love cases like this and I guess we just do things a bit different. This is because we narrate and play the game with the mind set that most things in the round are actually underway at the same time. For example, today a monk wanted to move to engage an ogre and attack it. They were sixty feet apart (far enough, neither could move and attack, except with Step of the Wind (not employed). However, I understand that from the moment the round begins, actions begin. Both opponents were moving towards each other and met roughly in the middle. The monk, who had the higher initiative, simply got his attacks in first.

So, if the players all fail perception such as in this case, (IMO) there is no twig-snapping, no seeing something out of the corner of your eye, etc. because if you think about it, the enemy is still hidden and hasn't acted yet. With a failed perception, the PC has no idea where the attack is coming from or what is out there. But this is where the idea of simultaneous action comes in. I'll give you an example with some initiative totals:

Alice got 27.
Andy got 19.
Brenda got 16.
DM got 15.
Bob got 9.
Chuck got 3.

DM narrates after initiative is rolled: "Alice, you see bushes part and leaves fall as several giant spiders and two ettercaps emerge for hiding, moving towards the party to attack! (Note: the monsters are starting their actions, but none get resolved until their initiative comes up.) The rest of you fail to notice the threat."
Alice: "I move to the edge of the path, back to the tree, and wait for the first enemy to come within reach so I can attack it."
Brenda: "I'm not surprised now, so I can cast Shield if I have to."
DM: "Yep. Ok, Alice, a giant spider strides past you, heading towards Bob!"
Alice: "I lunge out an stab it!"
(Alice hits!)
DM: "Good damage! The spider staggers and sticky goo clings to your blade as you pull it back. Brenda, an Ettercap jumps towards you, biting and clawing! The bite hits!"
Brenda: "I throw up my hand, casting Shield."
DM: "The ettercap's attack glance off of the shimmering barrier, but it eyes you with a hateful hunger."
(and so on...)

So, technically, once the action begins and the monsters are moving (no longer in stealth and hidden), Alice is aware of them and able to act quickly enough. But, until that moment she wasn't. We don't play it as a sixth-sense or anything else, but that it perfectly fine, too. Others might play this as:

(After initiative is rolled.)
DM: "You sense something is wrong, what do you do?"
Alice: "I don't see anything yet, so I'll move to the edge of the path near a tree and get ready to strike."
Brenda: "Nothing, huh? Well, I trust her instincts and have my Shield spell if I need it."
(and continue as before...)

Obviously both work fine, we just prefer to have the action more "all at once" most of the time if it makes sense since although the rounds are discrete, the action usually isn't IME.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In 90% of cases this is true in my campaign, maybe even more. Being surprised by the enemy is quite rare, although not realizing someone is going to attack (you thought you were just chatting) is more common.

Wouldn’t a sudden attack in the midst of a chat make for a surprised enemy?

 

[Oofta]

Wouldn’t a sudden attack in the midst of a chat make for a surprised enemy?

Being surprised in the sense of ambushed by creatures you can't see is rare in my campaigns. If you're having a conversation with someone and they decide to attack (or enemies in the tavern, bad guys pretending to be customers and so on), you see them you just weren't expecting violence is slightly more common.

It's just personal play style and preference. It's rare that someone is going to be lurking in the shadows effectively enough and in large enough numbers to challenge a group of adventurers.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Being surprised in the sense of ambushed by creatures you can't see is rare in my campaigns. If you're having a conversation with someone and they decide to attack (or enemies in the tavern, bad guys pretending to be customers and so on), you see them you just weren't expecting violence is slightly more common.

It's just personal play style and preference. It's rare that someone is going to be lurking in the shadows effectively enough and in large enough numbers to challenge a group of adventurers.

No I get that, though it surprises me given a lot of the others things you’ve said about your campaign.

What I was asking was if someone making a totally unexpected attack in the midst of a conversation would have a chance of causing the target to be surprised in the ensuing conflict.

 

[aco175]

I tend to describe some sort of action before asking for initiative. I never just ask for initiative with the players struggling to figure out what is up. There may be PCs being surprised, or never surprised in this case, but the players do know that something is going on.

 

[aco175]

What I was asking was if someone making a totally unexpected attack in the midst of a conversation would have a chance of causing the target to be surprised in the ensuing conflict.

I would likely give the PCs an Insight check to notice that something was up. I cannot see a completely random person talking one minute and then attacking without something to act as a tell. Now, the bad guy may be skilled in deception to counter the insight check.