How do you run surprise?

[ValhallaGH]

It does create another problem, though.

When you are surprised and your initiative is lower than that of the ambusher, you suffer through one partial and one full action and then you can only perform one partial action after which another full action can be directed against you. Seems pretty harsh.

It not only seems harsh, it is harsh.

There are few things in the game as horrifying/awe-inducing as a surprise round and two full rounds of sneak attack against someone before they get any chance to act.

That sort of damage just isn't survivable when dealing with challenges of comparable level. This is as true for badguys as it is for the PCs.

 

[frankthedm]

There are few things in the game as horrifying/awe-inducing as a surprise round and two full rounds of sneak attack against someone before they get any chance to act.

You misunderstand. The 3.0 DMG suggestion prevents the person who does the surprising from eating a full attack before he can launch one. Yes, this makes being surprided a notch worse. But it also keeps heavy hitters from desiring to be surprised so the first action they launch is a full attack. At worst there is a chance for a surprise round and one full round of sneak attack but the rules normally permit that anyways.

1st round of combat. Those aware get a partial action and roll init.
Foe's first action 'partial'. Claims his dex bonus

2nd round of combat. Everybody else rolls thier init. If the victim looses init...Foe's second action 'normal'.
Victim's first action 'partial'. Claims his dex bonus

3rd round of combat.
Foe's third action 'normal'.
Victim's second action 'normal'.

This varient makes init. matter to everyone and puts those who get surprised on the defensive.

 

[Thanee]

But it also keeps heavy hitters from desiring to be surprised so the first action they launch is a full attack.

This is never true. Noone ever desires to be surprised, because it is always a disadvantage.

Even if the first action you can do is a full action, and even if you are first in initiative order, there is a whole round of partial actions happening before that.

The big change I don't like with this is, that it makes losing initiative a non-issue for the ambushers. They win even if they lose initiative.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Legildur]

I still use the variant from the 3.0 DMG where all combatants take their first round in combat as a partial action. Otherwise someone with a large full attack routine benefits from being surprised since their first action can be a full round attack.

I'm going to back frankthedm here. Sorry Thanee. Our groups have been using this variant rule from 3.0 for a long time now and think that it is fantastic. Otherwise you have a situation where the winner of initiative can completely swamp the opposition with full round actions. We find it much better balanced with the variant rule in place.

 

[airwalkrr]

If two sides are aware of each other, no matter the circumstance, there is no surprise. Usually if one group is sneaking, then I have them roll opposed Stealth vs. Alertness checks (Hide/Move Silently vs. Spot/Listen essentially). If the group successfully sneaks, then they get a surprise action which consists of one segment worth of action in which they can take a single move, make a single attack, or cast a spell that takes one segment to cast. They can also begin an action that takes longer. I use 10 segment rounds of 1 minute each for combat so my combat system is a bit different from 3e. More like 1e.

 

[shilsen]

I run it by the book. Never had a problem thus far.

 

[Artoomis]

We run it "by the book," too,. No problems.

Surprise
When a combat starts, if you are not aware of your opponents and they are aware of you, you’re surprised.

Determining Awareness
Sometimes all the combatants on a side are aware of their opponents, sometimes none are, and sometimes only some of them are. Sometimes a few combatants on each side are aware and the other combatants on each side are unaware.

Determining awareness may call for Listen checks, Spot checks, or other checks.

The Surprise Round
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. Any combatants aware of the opponents can act in the surprise round, so they roll for initiative. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.

Unaware Combatants
Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don’t get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.

 

[Vegepygmy]

1) I have everyone (even the guys that can't act) roll initative. It establishes order in the surprise round. This is merely "getting the roles out of the way" for the people that can't act.

2) Everyone that is aware (and therefore gets to act) goes in initiative order. Max of one standard action.

3) Begin first normal round of combat, continuing the initiative order.

This is exactly how I handle it, too.