More often than not I surprise my players with the current events of their home city. There are always the problems that the heroes elected to put off while rectifying other situations. My players like to attempt to guess at what will happen. The match makers of the party who wanted to set up two npcs with each other as well as the one player that wanted one of the intended for himself were all quite surprised that the elf ambassador in betrothed to a local baron and the half elf high sheriff that they wanted her to marry is now a sad sobbing drunk. The political intrigue that happens when one is away.
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How do you surprise your players?
- Thread starter Jonathon Robinson
- Start date
pming
Legend
Hiya!
I was a bit confused when I read this post...the title says "...surprise your players", but then the actual post seems to indicate ambush, narrative, combat and PC's. Towards the end it is obvious you mean PC's, and not Players.
Pro Tip: Player = the person at the table // Player CHARACTER = the in-game persona the Player is playing.
Just a little nit-pic there; Player and Character are NOT interchangeable.
Ahem. So...how do I surprise/ambush the PC's? Well, first of all I ignore the 5e rules about there being no "surprise round". In my game, I run initiative in a LOT of different ways, depending on our mood, the situation, and just whim. Overall, I use the old 1e rule of rolling 1d6 for each side; on a 1 or 2, that side is "surprised". This can have a situation where both sides are equally surprised.
That said, sometimes I just decide that one side is surprised, if it seems like it would make the most sense. That rarely happens, but it does happen.
As for the rest...uh...well, I use 1e Surprise. Problem solved I guess? With regard to the Feat's...I don't allow/use Feats. Problem solved...again.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
I was a bit confused when I read this post...the title says "...surprise your players", but then the actual post seems to indicate ambush, narrative, combat and PC's. Towards the end it is obvious you mean PC's, and not Players.
Pro Tip: Player = the person at the table // Player CHARACTER = the in-game persona the Player is playing.
Just a little nit-pic there; Player and Character are NOT interchangeable.Ahem. So...how do I surprise/ambush the PC's? Well, first of all I ignore the 5e rules about there being no "surprise round". In my game, I run initiative in a LOT of different ways, depending on our mood, the situation, and just whim. Overall, I use the old 1e rule of rolling 1d6 for each side; on a 1 or 2, that side is "surprised". This can have a situation where both sides are equally surprised.
That said, sometimes I just decide that one side is surprised, if it seems like it would make the most sense. That rarely happens, but it does happen.
As for the rest...uh...well, I use 1e Surprise. Problem solved I guess? With regard to the Feat's...I don't allow/use Feats. Problem solved...again.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
When designing an ambush, I figure out the setup from the enemy's perspective (what they think might work). I roll initiative as soon as a combat happens, and run things basically by the book. If someone has a method to avoid surprise, and the enemy is hidden, I describe the feeling of oncoming danger in a way based on the source. For example, a barbarian who could rage to ignore surprise in my last campaign could smell danger in the air (even if he didn't know where the enemy was).
If no one has any avoid surprise abilities and I want to actually startle the players (not something I can often get away with, because they ALWAYS expect me to try and kill them), I have the enemy roll initiative beforehand, and compare it to the passive initiative of the party. I describe the ambush attack, but if it would be after the passive initiative, they can take a reaction to the ambush if they have one. Then have the players roll initiative as normal, since the surprise round is complete (remember that anyone who used their reaction doesn't get another until the start of their turn).
If no one has any avoid surprise abilities and I want to actually startle the players (not something I can often get away with, because they ALWAYS expect me to try and kill them), I have the enemy roll initiative beforehand, and compare it to the passive initiative of the party. I describe the ambush attack, but if it would be after the passive initiative, they can take a reaction to the ambush if they have one. Then have the players roll initiative as normal, since the surprise round is complete (remember that anyone who used their reaction doesn't get another until the start of their turn).
Jonathon Robinson
First Post
I was a bit confused when I read this post...the title says "...surprise your players", but then the actual post seems to indicate ambush, narrative, combat and PC's. Towards the end it is obvious you mean PC's, and not Players.
Pro Tip: Player = the person at the table // Player CHARACTER = the in-game persona the Player is playing.
I realize how it reads and we've gotten some great humorous posts as a result. Not to be nit-picky but the DMG is pretty clear on how to surprise characters (it's just stealth versus passive perception and those who lose are surprised during the first round of combat). I meant how do you surprise your players? Rolling for initiative before the ambush starts isn't really surprising at all, more just confusing. Stating that arrows fly out of the trees is a surprise to the players but isn't consistent with some of the character abilities who might have higher initiative or be alert.
This is where I'm leaning as well. Although many of the posts here give some great options on how to run the surprise round effectively, I think it will be situation dependent.
As for the rest...uh...well, I use 1e Surprise. Problem solved I guess? With regard to the Feat's...I don't allow/use Feats. Problem solved...again.
It isn't just feats that can give initiative bonuses or alertness. Do you also ban magic items that state a character can't be surprised (e.g. weapon of warning)?
Oofta
Legend
When I want to surprise the players with some story element I think about a few things.
What is the goal? Does it make sense? Did I drop appropriate hints to give them that reaction of "OMG! That's why..."? Most important, does it add to the story we (I and my players) are telling? The thing I want to avoid is the "shocking twist" that makes absolutely no sense. I can always say that all of the locals in the group's home base were really demons in disguise all along which may be surprising but probably wouldn't add anything of value.
So let's start with a simple environmental surprise, the floor collapsing. I'd probably be describing the building they're entering as old and in ill repair. The floors show obvious signs of rot and water damage, creaking menacingly under their feet. This way if the group doesn't take precautions such as staying on the edge of rooms, spreading out a bit, etc I can usually get a "I knew this was going to happen" response. The situation was presented, the group anticipated the result and either did not take precautions or not enough. At other times that sense of dread, the sound of the ice cracking ominously under their feet, the fear of impending plunge into cold dark icy water is a goal unto itself. Sometimes the ice breaks.
Then there are unexpected encounters. The tavern that is unusually quiet, food set on the tables but no one eating (or only pretending to eat) everyone staring at the group hungrily while someone slips out the back door. Setting a mood for the commoners to be vampire spawn waiting for their master to join them before they attack. So there's a chance for perception checks to notice the guy leaving, investigation checks to notice that the bread is old and dry, the cups empty, etc. Or it can be as simple as walking through the forest and all the birds stop singing as people notice that it's quiet. Too quiet.
When it comes to NPCs, I try to drop hints that something isn't quite what it seems. The quest-giver that only ever sent them after one of two factions, that subtly (or not so subtly) discouraged going against both factions telling them that The Blinded Eye cult was simply too powerful. Or when the group did go up against the Blinded Eye, they were ambushed. The noble that they saw in an unexpected place or that had muck on his shoes after the mysterious villain had run away through the stables.
But the NPC surprises don't have to be all bad. Sometimes an NPC can be an unexpectedly powerful ally. The bartender that is really a high level wizard which explains the occasional frozen bad guy corpse, or the time the group was awoken by a chattering squirrel in the middle of the night just before they were ambushed. Sometimes the NPC assassin has conflicting agendas and may let the PC live to see another day for her own reasons that aren't apparent at the time.
Depending on the player, I may also set up a deep dark PC secret. Nothing like the BBEG showing up saying "hello son" to Bob the party mage.
Last but not least, sometimes the NPC is simply an NPC that I realize retroactively could have been something they didn't appear to be. Maybe initially the princess really had been kidnapped but for some unplanned reason the group was suspicious of the circumstances. While for that story arc the princess really was a princess, I change my mind later and decide later that the dragon was working for her. Sometimes I just realize I set up an encounter that the PC(s) didn't have a chance to win so I have to give them an "out" (although other times the PCs just lose of course).
It also depends on the game. If I want some political intrigue and paranoia I'm far more likely to set up twists and turns. A dungeon crawl campaign? The surprises are probably limited to environmental hazards and traps.
What is the goal? Does it make sense? Did I drop appropriate hints to give them that reaction of "OMG! That's why..."? Most important, does it add to the story we (I and my players) are telling? The thing I want to avoid is the "shocking twist" that makes absolutely no sense. I can always say that all of the locals in the group's home base were really demons in disguise all along which may be surprising but probably wouldn't add anything of value.
So let's start with a simple environmental surprise, the floor collapsing. I'd probably be describing the building they're entering as old and in ill repair. The floors show obvious signs of rot and water damage, creaking menacingly under their feet. This way if the group doesn't take precautions such as staying on the edge of rooms, spreading out a bit, etc I can usually get a "I knew this was going to happen" response. The situation was presented, the group anticipated the result and either did not take precautions or not enough. At other times that sense of dread, the sound of the ice cracking ominously under their feet, the fear of impending plunge into cold dark icy water is a goal unto itself. Sometimes the ice breaks.
Then there are unexpected encounters. The tavern that is unusually quiet, food set on the tables but no one eating (or only pretending to eat) everyone staring at the group hungrily while someone slips out the back door. Setting a mood for the commoners to be vampire spawn waiting for their master to join them before they attack. So there's a chance for perception checks to notice the guy leaving, investigation checks to notice that the bread is old and dry, the cups empty, etc. Or it can be as simple as walking through the forest and all the birds stop singing as people notice that it's quiet. Too quiet.
When it comes to NPCs, I try to drop hints that something isn't quite what it seems. The quest-giver that only ever sent them after one of two factions, that subtly (or not so subtly) discouraged going against both factions telling them that The Blinded Eye cult was simply too powerful. Or when the group did go up against the Blinded Eye, they were ambushed. The noble that they saw in an unexpected place or that had muck on his shoes after the mysterious villain had run away through the stables.
But the NPC surprises don't have to be all bad. Sometimes an NPC can be an unexpectedly powerful ally. The bartender that is really a high level wizard which explains the occasional frozen bad guy corpse, or the time the group was awoken by a chattering squirrel in the middle of the night just before they were ambushed. Sometimes the NPC assassin has conflicting agendas and may let the PC live to see another day for her own reasons that aren't apparent at the time.
Depending on the player, I may also set up a deep dark PC secret. Nothing like the BBEG showing up saying "hello son" to Bob the party mage.
Last but not least, sometimes the NPC is simply an NPC that I realize retroactively could have been something they didn't appear to be. Maybe initially the princess really had been kidnapped but for some unplanned reason the group was suspicious of the circumstances. While for that story arc the princess really was a princess, I change my mind later and decide later that the dragon was working for her. Sometimes I just realize I set up an encounter that the PC(s) didn't have a chance to win so I have to give them an "out" (although other times the PCs just lose of course).
It also depends on the game. If I want some political intrigue and paranoia I'm far more likely to set up twists and turns. A dungeon crawl campaign? The surprises are probably limited to environmental hazards and traps.
Bitbrain
Lost in Dark Sun
If there is going to be an ambush, then the monsters will know that the PCs have broken into their lair/wandered into their home turf. The monsters will position themselves and hold their respective actions so that at least one of them will hit the adventurers in the instant that they see the adventurers walk into the room/enter the clearing.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
Ambushes are always from the Spanish Inquisition.
Because noone expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Because noone expects the Spanish Inquisition.
pming
Legend
Hiya!
Nope, the would be fine. But I'm a rather "stingy" DM; it's always easier to give to players than it is to take away... What I'm saying is, magic items don't show up a lot in my games. I almost never have magic items be "obvious" to anyone, and my players are NOTORIOUS for finishing a big fight and being so glad they didn't die that all they think of is "Lets get out of here before something else shows up!"...leaving the chest full of treasure behind the throne un-discovered. A few years ago they brought up the "lack of treasure" and tried to complain to me about it. I then went through the last sessions adventure and recapped...and telling them where the treasure was. Since then, they've never complained.
So, magic items are a bit different in that they are items that can be destroyed, stolen, lost or otherwise "not in use at the right time" (if applicable). It's not something that is "part of the PC and always on", basically.
The way Surprise 'works' in 5e is...let me just say it is "less than satisfactory" for my game.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Nope, the would be fine. But I'm a rather "stingy" DM; it's always easier to give to players than it is to take away... What I'm saying is, magic items don't show up a lot in my games. I almost never have magic items be "obvious" to anyone, and my players are NOTORIOUS for finishing a big fight and being so glad they didn't die that all they think of is "Lets get out of here before something else shows up!"...leaving the chest full of treasure behind the throne un-discovered. A few years ago they brought up the "lack of treasure" and tried to complain to me about it. I then went through the last sessions adventure and recapped...and telling them where the treasure was. Since then, they've never complained.
So, magic items are a bit different in that they are items that can be destroyed, stolen, lost or otherwise "not in use at the right time" (if applicable). It's not something that is "part of the PC and always on", basically.
The way Surprise 'works' in 5e is...let me just say it is "less than satisfactory" for my game.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Fair enough, but if you you keep shouting "ni!" at my table, I *WILL* kill you--------------r character.
Imaculata
Hero
With combat, I surprise my players by having opponents appear from directions they don't expect (from underwater, or dropping from the ceiling). And I throw in unexpected environmental conditions that complicate the fight. One time I even had a group of camouflaged lizard men waiting to jump the players in a tavern (they had a sort of chameleon-type skin).
With the narrative, I usually throw in some red herrings; preferably plot points that I know are likely to draw them in, hook line and sinker. I know there are some kinds of plots that they really can get invested to, and can easily lead them to draw wrong conclusions. Bad guys may turn out to be good guys after all, and then turn on them again when they least expect it. Good guys can also turn out to be villains, but maybe their motives are not so black and white, and they gain sympathy from the players. A recurring villain may suddenly do a heel turn, and an abandoned quest may have a follow up that has dire consequences.
For example, for my next session I have a plot planned where a local pirate lord is suspected by his own people to be up to no good. There are various clues that make him highly suspicious, and the players will be asked to investigate the manner. I originally intended for this guy to be a villain, until yesterday, when I came up with a much better plot in which he is more of a gray character. So I scrapped his original motivation, and came up with a much more compelling one, which also makes him a far more interesting character. The plot has multiple surprises in store for the players, which I will try to connect with various side quests as well.
I think that last bit is quite crucial, upon further reflection. By tying hints (and red herrings) directly into side-stories, it not only makes it one whole interconnected story, but it allows me to sprinkle various plot hooks and red herrings in places where the players would not expect it. They may be chasing down side quest 1 and 2, when they stumble upon hints and red herrings regarding the main plot, that bring them back on course. That way you not only steer them back towards the main plot, but you can also sprinkle their road with tiny surprises and remarkable discoveries.
With the narrative, I usually throw in some red herrings; preferably plot points that I know are likely to draw them in, hook line and sinker. I know there are some kinds of plots that they really can get invested to, and can easily lead them to draw wrong conclusions. Bad guys may turn out to be good guys after all, and then turn on them again when they least expect it. Good guys can also turn out to be villains, but maybe their motives are not so black and white, and they gain sympathy from the players. A recurring villain may suddenly do a heel turn, and an abandoned quest may have a follow up that has dire consequences.
For example, for my next session I have a plot planned where a local pirate lord is suspected by his own people to be up to no good. There are various clues that make him highly suspicious, and the players will be asked to investigate the manner. I originally intended for this guy to be a villain, until yesterday, when I came up with a much better plot in which he is more of a gray character. So I scrapped his original motivation, and came up with a much more compelling one, which also makes him a far more interesting character. The plot has multiple surprises in store for the players, which I will try to connect with various side quests as well.
I think that last bit is quite crucial, upon further reflection. By tying hints (and red herrings) directly into side-stories, it not only makes it one whole interconnected story, but it allows me to sprinkle various plot hooks and red herrings in places where the players would not expect it. They may be chasing down side quest 1 and 2, when they stumble upon hints and red herrings regarding the main plot, that bring them back on course. That way you not only steer them back towards the main plot, but you can also sprinkle their road with tiny surprises and remarkable discoveries.
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