How do YOU use Power Attack?

[Shadeus]

I've been playing a dwarven fighter since 3E was released. He's up to a 12th-level character now (9th-level fighter/3rd-level Dwarven Defender) with a +12 BAB. That means he gets 3 attacks a round.

My question is, when you get to use your full attack action, how do you decide how much Power Attack to use toward your attack? With my bonuses and everything, my dwarf typically has a +21/+16/+11 to hit doing 1d8+10 (+1d6 fire dmg) each hit. I typically try to adjust my power attack so that my attacks have a 75%, 50%, and 25% chance to hit respectively.

So for example, if I'm fighting something with AC 20, I'll use Power Attack +6 changing my attacks to +15/+10/+5.

Is that over-conservative? Is it better to just pummel them by using the max power attack or is there a better comination?

 

[Crothian]

That's a pretty good way to do it. Personally, I like tripping my opponent then using power attack to wail on him when he's down. Power attack is great with low AC opponents, or when you are getting huge bonuses to attack.

 

[Artoomis]

The basic math is pretty simple (if I get this right)

Let's assume you normally do 1d8 (average 4.5) damage.

Further, we compare +21/+16/+11 and +15/+10/+5 vs. AC 20

we get:

.95*4.5 + .85*4.5 + .60*4.5 = and expected damage of 4.275 + 3.875 + 2.7 = 10.85

and with 6 points of Power Attack

(A 15 gives 80% chance to hit - onl;y a 1,2,3 or 4 will miss)

.80*10.5 + .55*10.5 + .2*10.5 = 8.4 + 5.775 + 2.1 = 16.275

Assuming no errors, it seems you've made good choice. I'm sure SpikeyFreak (I hope I got that right) will post teh link to hi spreadsheet where you can figure out the best choice.

Of course, each situation is unique. For example, though you will, on average, do more damage with Power Attack you will, of couirse, hit less often, so you will critical less often, and any special powers your weapons might have will come into play less often.

I find it's very situational and I just try to have a good feel for it. My character with Power Attack also can Smite (paladin), so I will often use Power Attack with the Smite - a powerful combination.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

It varies way too much to come up with an exact method. But basically, if I'm fighting something I estimate has a lot of hp I bust power attack by around 5 points dropping my %chance to hit by a max of 25%. Low hp creatures I usually didn't bother with it since I would smoke it in a hit or two anyways. Guesstimated ac is also important, but except for dragons the character I had hit on a 2 usually, on my 1st swing. I'm playing a wizard now so no power attack for me.

 

[Orco42]

That is why I don't let my players know what AC the enemies have. The variable AC option is great it really keeps them guessing.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

The best way to use power attack is to use it as little as possible!

If you are charging, you'll get only one attack at your highest bonus. If you are reasonably certain that you'll miss only on a 1, it is a good idea to use power attack. Do not use it so much that your odds of failure are raised above 5%, though.

It's easier to calculate precisely when the DM annunces the AC up front!

But during a full attack never use power attack unless one of the following two conditions are true;

1-If your last attack hits on anything but a 1. This is common with dragons. In such a case you should sink as many BAB in damage as you can afford while still hitting on anything but a 1.

2-If your best attack hits only on a 20. In such a scenario you might as well use a full power attack. A better idea would be to flee, though!

If conditions 1 or 2 don't apply, never use power attack. This is especially true if you have a high base damage.

In the case of your barbarian, the best scenario is that he hits 3 time, not once or twice with a bonus to his base damage!

Regarding your example; against an AC 20, your odds of making a successful attack are 95%, 85% and 60% if don't use power attack. These odds are terrific, keep them!

With your proposed scheme of power attack you deal 6 extra damage on each successful strike, but you'll hit much less often on average. Considering that your average base damage is 18, each attack missed because of the lower BAB aren't compensated by the extra damage on those attacks that do hit.

Frankly, power attack is most useful as a requisite for cleave, otherwise I would not recommend taking it.

 

[Christian]

'Fraid not, Mal. Take a look at Artoomis's calculations above ... He increases his average damage per round by 6 points by using 6 points of Power Attack. Go figure ...

'Go figure', in fact, is exactly what you need to do. You'll rarely know an opponent's AC at the beginning of a combat (unless your DM is unusually forthcoming), but some calculation can give you a range of AC's at which the Power Attack is useful, and roughly how much. Round by round, you'll get a better idea of the AC (and hit points, for a number of small opponents) of your enemy and can adjust your bonuses appropriately.

For the record, this is a good strategy for monks with the Lightning Fists feat from Sword and Fist as well. Although after crunching the numbers, you may find yourself wishing you hadn't wasted a feat on that dog. Flurry of Blows is frequently a better choice ...

 

[Psifon]

Another consideration for power attack is overkill. You want to guestimate how much damage a foe can take, then do that much damage. If you are overkilling the enemy, then the power attack is wasted and the cost you payed in lower to hit chances was a risk not worth taking.

Of course this is easier said than done.

The way I look at it is how many hits is this creature:

An orc or goblin is a one hit creature against almost any weapon.

An ogre is a 3 hit creature if you use a light weapon

A giant is probably a 6-8 hit creature or even more.

Figure a two handed weapon does two hits in this rule of thumb system

Now what you want to do with power attack, is not just do more damage, you want to reduce the number of hits it takes to down the thing.

Happy guestimating!

 

[twjensen]

Quick Expected value

You generally want to power attack such that your odds of hitting are being reduced less than the amount that your damage is increasing. So if my power attack takes me from 75% chance of hitting to 50% chance, I need to do 50% more damage (75/50 = 1.5, for 50% more) to make it work.

That's why Mal was saying that you usually don't want to do it for a full attack option. You're generally really losing out on your second and third attacks, where the drop is precipitous (from 50% to hit down to 25% to hit, for example, where you'd have to be doing double damage).

And what fighter lv 12 is doing just 1D8 damage?

Quick rule of thumb, if you attack something and hit on all attacks, increase your power attack the next time you attack or the next time you fight the same kind of thing. If you miss on your secondary and etc. attacks, reduce the power attack. Pretty soon you'll have a good feel for when power attack is beneficial.

 

[Hejdun]

Also, use Power Attack vs. low AC opponents. A good example is pretty much any animal or dire animal. Just last night, my fighter/paladin 2/2 (with help) was fighting 2 dire wolves. I used Power Attack to great effect, after realizing that I hit on a 14. My attack bonus is +9, so I often took 2-4 points off. Luckily, the dice rolled my way, and it ended up that when I missed, it was always when I would have missed anyways. I ended up with some killer hits, doing 16, 17, 18 damage a hit (good rolls there as well).