How does the Paladin stack up?

[ConcreteBuddha]

Also, don't underestimate the power of DR/-. 2 damage of every hit doesn't seem like much,

It isn't much. Really.

 

[Balthasar]

Did we forget what the 'R' in 'RPG' stands for ppl?

Paladins rock...I'm currently playing a 15th paladin (with only a 13 wis no less, no 4th lvl spells) and it's great fun.

I'm not finding it less powerful than anything, just different.....

 

[Zerth]

Oh yeah, and DIVINE MIGHT ROCKS!!! Whew...

(And yes, IMCs Divine Might takes a standard action to activate. The Sage was smoking crack on that one. It would be TOO good if it was a free action to activate.) [/B]

Yep, I also think Divine Might requires a standard action to activate. Defenders of Faith, page 19, Divine Feats, last paragraph:

"Third, you can't use the Quicken Turning feat to speed up the use of a divine feat".

Why would they say this, if you're supposed to use divine feats as a free action??? As a DM I would never allow players to use Divine Might as a free action, it's way too good like that. I think The Sage didn't do his homework on this one.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

As a DM I would never allow players to use Divine Might as a free action, it's way too good like that.

Yeah, especially considering most Paladins have at least a +5 modifier at higher levels.

Jeez, as a player I would never use Divine Might as a free action. I'd force myself to burn a standard, just out of guilt.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

It is a free action. The FAQ for DotF indicates that you Divine Might takes immediate effect whenever you decide to use it while attacking.

 

[green slime]

In the campaign with a paladin, (a 6th level aasimar paladin), the dude just rocks. With 20 Charisma, and the obligatory Divine Might, evil is sent back to the nether regions where they belong.

Just had a fight two weeks back in an unhallowed ground with a fear effect in place. The fighter, and the rogue, both failed their saves, constantly, fleeing the scene the entire combat. One Cleric got chopped into something resembling sushi, by the BBE Cleric. The Wizard was out of FX. So it was down to the Paladin, and the last cleric.

Needless to say, noone suggests that the paladin is subpar in my game.

The most common counter to fighters/barbarians/rangers/rogues: the Will save. The Paladin has a far greater chance of surviving domination,charm, and other similar effects.

Sure, they aren't quite as damage dealing as the fighter in a straight-up fight against lackeys. But once you enter the BBEG's lair, Prepare to see some ar$e getting kicked!

 

[Caliban]

A player in the game I DM presented the spell like that, but I don't read it that way.
"The weapon negates the damage reduction of evil creatures and is capable of striking evil incorporeal creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus."

Some read it as "The weapon negates the damage reduction of evil creatures. The weapon is capable of striking evil incorporeal creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus."

I read it as "The weapon negates the damage reduction of of evil creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus. The weapon is capable of striking evil incorporeal creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus."

Ah well.

I believe your view is correct. The paladin spell summary section in the PHB also supports this view.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Actually, what is most of yours take on letting a warhorse into a dungeon?

Its only usually a little taller than a human standing, and a smart horse (which a palys mount is) can usually make it through human sized doors.

In terms of avg damage, Fighters and Barbs beat palys, that's what they do, that's what they are supposed to do. Palys get to shine in certain situations, and they do it quite well. You won't be the man all the time, but you'll be the man enough to feel your time was worth it.

Also, don't underestimate the power of DR/-. 2 damage of every hit doesn't seem like much, but over the course of an adventure it can mean some seirous hp savings. At high levels, a lot of those creatures got 3 or so attacks, and since a barbs AC tends to blow, 4 to 6 less damage a round is preety nice,

Bah!

Lay on hands beats DR 2/- any day, especially at higher levels when you are being hit for 20+ pts of damage a blow. Besides, being able to fix your (or someone else's) injuries is always better than taking slightly less damage.

Paladins with the correct selection of feats are powerful. Not as mighty in a fight as a fighter (who has WAY more feats and usually only needs Str and Con to be effective), but you get the same number of feats that the barbarian does but with a batter selection (clerical feats).

At lower levels the barbarian tends to do more damage, but at higher levels the paladin can easily beat out the barbarian with a spell or two - - and you can make saving throws to boot. All the barbarian really gets at high levels is more rage (oh joy!.), more speed and a pathetic DR. In addition, you get benefits against feat spells AND immunity to disease (including particularly nasty magical ones).

The paladin is also MUCH more flexible than the barbarian is. You can take most fighter feats AND many clerical ones as well. You can turn undead (and take the turning feats) and you also get your mount (which admittedly is of little use in a dungeon but it is potent outside in the open). Lastly you get your smite ability (which is best saved for that special someone.)

In my opinion, after the monk and the bard, the paladin is one of the most poorly played and improperly used classes in 3e. As a result many players tend to underestimate its power. It IS however one of the more powerful classes.

Tzarevitch

 

[Gizzard]

One thing thats always important to clarify in these discussions is, "What level Paladin are we talking about?"

At low levels they seem pretty darn strong; that CHA bonus to saves mean you probably have better saves than the Monk; D-Evil is a fine, useful power. Things like Resist Disease and Immunity to Fear are very nice at low levels where every rat seems to have some disgusting disease and every evil Shaman seems to have prepared Cause Fear. Its never wrong to be able to throw out a couple points of healing. The BAB is good, you can wear armor and wield a serious weapon and you get a D10.

Haven't played them at high levels, but this should get you to level 6 in good shape.

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Re: Re

It is a free action. The FAQ for DotF indicates that you Divine Might takes immediate effect whenever you decide to use it while attacking.

We know that.


And we think it is utter BS. Compare it to Weapon Specialization, and you will understand what we are talking about. The FAQ is not completely official. Definitely more official than say, The New York Times, but not the end all be all of discussion on the matter. It is the electronic equivalent to Sage Advice.

In this matter, the FAQ is wrong. Simple.


Kind of like "Halfling outriders do not have BABs."