D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Lanefan]

Given that all of these apply to all characters at the table, claiming that it represents "caving" to selfish players doesn't hold any water. None of these things allow a particular character to outshine all others.

Ah, you're looking at selfish in a different light than I am.

I agree that it doesn't encourage spotlight-hogging by any one particular player at the table. When I refer to selfish players I'm talking about "players" as a massed general group, meanign that of course there's individual exceptions in all directions.

The "caving" part lies in the give-the-players-what-they-want design philosophy that, while pleasing to players for whom the game has been made less demanding/challenging to play, doesn't make the overall game any better in the long run.

Moreover, when 5E was being designed they took consultation from people like The RPG Pundit for crying out loud. So claiming they ignored the cries of old-school gamers also doesn't hold any water. 5E was a big step towards older-style D&D compared to 4E.

In some ways yes - most notably in the return to a more rulings-over-rules ethos - though in some other ways 5e stepped even farther away from old-school than any prior edition. Many of these other ways involve making the game easier on the PCs and-or the players.

 

[Lanefan]

I feel like not browbeating people until they give up their play preferences is moving toward inclusivity.

Any time we stop mistreating people for being different is.

OK, now I'm lost.

How did we get from any part of this thread to here?

 

[Thomas Shey]

As an older gamer, I'm getting less and less charitable to older gamers with each new thread and post.

That's been happening to me for a while, at least the ones who seem to consider their age as a gamer some big part of their identity as a gamer.

 

[Helldritch]

OK, now I'm lost.

How did we get from any part of this thread to here?

I really do not know. I am as lost as you are on that one.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I really do not know. I am as lost as you are on that one.

I failed my insight check too. Though I bet it's DC 20. Need buff plz.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Read again.
Creativity is good. As long as it is respectful of the DM, AND THE OTHER PLAYERS! (caps intended).
If you are to cite me and my playstyle, at least do it with the full intent of what I was saying. If your background is accepted by the DM and the other players all is fine. But a player should minimally try to make a background that will mostly match what the other players intend to go.

Session zero is a discussion where all players (DM included by they way) are present. They will decide together which campaign type they are expecting or would like to have. They will decide together the main orientation and whatever. No player will impose his/her will on the other players with background that will not fit the consensus that will have been reached at session zero.
No character is ever made alone, at home and without DM supervision.

Other than that, anything is opened.

I was trying to. There was a lot of complaining that players are railroading GM creative agendas and very little (none really) about how player agendas are being included by GMs. How much can a player propose before it's too much?

 

[Ovinomancer]

I suppose that I'm just not anywhere close to the mindset of 'the game is mostly the GM's, except what the GM allows the players' anymore. I don't feel like players asserting that they want things in the game is something that is even an imposition on me as a GM. Isn't that the point? To share in creating a fun story?

Other games feature the GM only as the provider of honest adversity to player inputs. The players are directing what the play is about and what they want to do and it's the GM's job to provide the adversity that must be overcome to do this. You can even have conflicting player agendas and manage just fine, because it's about finding out what happens when these characters butt heads. Not being expected to have the plot ready to feed to players is nice.

 

[jasper]

BLACK INK on white pages To Black ink on brown pages. font changes to font changes

 

[Vaalingrade]

OK, now I'm lost.

How did we get from any part of this thread to here?

Right here:

In older editions, doing this would bring you the fury of a table

 

[Thomas Shey]

BLACK INK on white pages To Black ink on brown pages. font changes to font changes

Could be worse. Occasionally you'll see someone who decides light colored ink on dark colored pages is a good idea.