D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[loverdrive]

Didn't read 88 pages of this thread and ain't going to, so I'm just doorkicking as always.

The culture around the game changed significantly (but that's probably not endemic to D&D per se), the game itself? Not really. A bit more lean, a bit less rough around the edges, same at its core.

 

[Ovinomancer]

...meanwhile, Klarg from the starter, killing PCs like it's open season. And goblin ambush right before him.

I once one shot a 100% healthy 3rd level fighter with a CR 1/2 cultist using Inflict Wound. One crit and nothing less than an 8 on the 6d10 later and it was death from massive damage.

 

[Guest 7034872]

The point is about the system. In the 3E system, it is still entirely possible for a RAW low-level threat to outright kill a PC with a lucky blow (the dice making the decision). In 5E, this is not really possible. That was the point.

That is true, and one of the first major changes I noticed when getting back into the game: crits used to carry a much wider range of possible effects than they do now, even including the outside possibility of an insta-kill.

 

[tetrasodium]

Well they did think about game 2. It was shunted into "optional rules".

Unfortunately those rules were written in a manner that was hostile to the very idea of tactical combat without any opportunity cost for movement through what used to be called threatened squares. At that point it goes back to the problem of the tactical game being stripped almost entirely.

4-6 pretty easy fights did the trick in 3e? 2e? I must have played a different game, then.

It had to do with spell slots, recovery, & vancian casting vrs "I can cast healing word from 4x level 1 slots up to 3x level 2 3 4 5 slots each & so on plus unlimited cantrips let me cabtrip on each" & similar. Sure in 3.x a cleric could replace a prepared spell with a spell equal or lower that has the word "cure" in the name, but those spells lost were not trivially replaced like now so using that spontaneous casting feature would impact their capabilities in combat as more than a healbot with enemies that could be extremely dangerous & needed to be treated as a real possible risk as has been getting discussed over the last page or two.

 

[Thomas Shey]

D&D is generic. It does fantasy and can do a lot of other genre. Just check the various settings. Heck, some games are copying what D&D does and apply it to other genre. Such as Cthulhu, Star Wars and such.

That doesn't mean it works worth a damn in most of those. In particular, D&D is about as bad a choice as a base system for horror gaming as you could start with, and its not much better for supers.

 

[Fifth Element]

Pretty sure the point was that in 5e the GM had to decide to kill a PC while in 3e the GM had no role in the roll. That orc crits in 3.x entirely broke the loose design math so the GM could make decision mistakes wasn't really in question.

This argument doesn't work though, because there's still a difference, just phrased differently: in 3E, the DM needs to be careful in their encounter design if they want to avoid one-shotting PCs by accident. In 5E, no such consideration is needed, because it will never happen.

That, in and of itself, is a difference between the systems. One requires planning by the DM, the other does not.

 

[Cadence]

That doesn't mean it works worth a damn in most of those. In particular, D&D is about as bad a choice as a base system for horror gaming as you could start with, and its not much better for supers.

Is that an opinion or selection bias influenced anecdote? (I could swear someone brings those up as being things to be on the lookout for in these discussions.) ;-)

 

[Ovinomancer]

Unfortunately those rules were written in a manner that was hostile to the very idea of tactical combat without any opportunity cost for movement through what used to be called threatened squares. At that point it goes back to the problem of the tactical game being stripped almost entirely.


It had to do with spell slots, recovery, & vancian casting vrs "I can cast healing word from 4x level 1 slots up to 3x level 2 3 4 5 slots each & so on plus unlimited cantrips let me cabtrip on each" & similar. Sure in 3.x a cleric could replace a prepared spell with a spell equal or lower that has the word "cure" in the name, but those spells lost were not trivially replaced like now so using that spontaneous casting feature would impact their capabilities in combat as more than a healbot with enemies that could be extremely dangerous & needed to be treated as a real possible risk as has been getting discussed over the last page or two.

At the end of the 4-6 pretty easy encounters resource drain wasn't even a stumbling block. You had to push harder in 3.x. it wasn't 4-6 moderate encounters that strained resources.

 

[Ovinomancer]

This argument doesn't work though, because there's still a difference, just phrased differently: in 3E, the DM needs to be careful in their encounter design if they want to avoid one-shotting PCs by accident. In 5E, no such consideration is needed, because it will never happen.

That, in and of itself, is a difference between the systems. One requires planning by the DM, the other does not.

This doesn't make the case, though, it just goes to say that the encounter guidelines for 3.x were less robust than 5e. You can still absolutely throw an accidentally crushing encounter in 5e. Mostly ghouls or similar creatures that can leverage bounded accuracy to destroy parties well above their predicted threat.

 

[Helldritch]

That doesn't mean it works worth a damn in most of those. In particular, D&D is about as bad a choice as a base system for horror gaming as you could start with, and its not much better for supers.

For horror, reduce the HD to the next lowest. D6 =>D4, max DH to 9. There after +1 hp per HD type above D4 (D4 included). Monsters stay the same, remove the healing over night, all healing spells add in the optional rule of horror factor and voilà! It will work.
Does not do super? Well, a .12 gauge does 2d8. The average 10 level fighter has about 94 HP with 16 CN. This means that the fighter will take 10 to 11 shot gun shot before falling (on average). If this is not super... nothing is. Hey! A dynamite stick does 1d6 damage per stick with a maximum of 10. Your wizard can throw a fire ball at level 5 that does the equivalent of 8 sticks... and his fireball is still better than a hand grenade (5d6). And the most wonderful thing? A simple night sleep will remove all that damage you suffered. It might not do superman, but Batman can be done easily, Dr Strange can be done, heck, Cpt America is easy to do too! And in a super hero game, who wants to play the invulnerable character? It gets boring quite fast. No, you want to do the Iron Man (artificer), The Dr Strange (wizard, sorcerer), Captain America (Fighter, Ranger, Paladin) and whatever. Hey Spidey can be done too (arcane trickster, change the spells and make them transmutation and alteration, spider climb, web and so on.) If you get yourself to it, you will make it work.