D&D 5E (2014) How have you added firearms into your games?

[TerraDave]

Ask the question: why do you want to add them?

Historically, bullets from guns didn't necessarily cause more damage, but their higher velocity did make them more effective against armor, at least at close ranges. Especially in the hands of soldiers that didn't have the upper body strength or training needed for longbows or certain melee weapons. They did fire slowly, and would be single fire weapons (or no fire weapons) in the kind of fast paced close quarter combat usually featured in D&D games.

So, from that, a weapon that can give common soldiers more punch, in a world were armor is rarer. You can have stats and properties (full round to load with proficiency, attack vs dex save) that reflect this.

Or not. They could just be better crossbows, as per the phb. Or you could fast forward a few centuries and they are the only ranged weapon, firing faster with much better ranges. Or they could be rare alchemical super weapons.

Think about the why, and the what follows.

 

[Satyrn]

I once made alchemy based firearms that I called needlers.

The basic weapon used a drop of alchemist's fire to propel a needle or dart. The simplest needler rifle was a breach loader, with one dart loaded per shot, and the alchemist's fire stored in a bladder stuck to the side. The bladder only needed to replaced after 50 shots, and so wasn't terribly important to consider.

From there, revolvers can easily be imagined. But also, the rifle could be made automatic or semi-auto by feeding the darts in with a belt (like a heavy machine guns).

Shotguns just used bearings instead of needlers.

or the guns could fire vials of alchemist's fire to create incendiary bullets. Or vials of acid. Or whatever.

Launchers were available to throw flasks of alchemist's fire or acid or whatever

Or a flamethrower set up to spew alchemist's fire. I didn't do it, but you could also make Mr Freeze's ice gun by spewing alchemist's frost.


I made these to get around any of the arguments about the strength of guns versus armor etc. Because these were fantasy weapons, no real world considerations could matter.

 

[Tony Vargas]

In one campaign I introduced firearms as alchemical items that used a fixed attack bonus instead of that of the wielder - to represent that they were deadly in untrained hands, but not that useful to very capable warriors.
Under BA, that trick wouldn't work as well.

 

[Captain Lhurgoyf]

In my setting, guns exist, but they're expensive, inaccurate, and difficult to make and repair, with none being smaller than an arquebus. For these reasons, most people don't bother with them when swords and arrows are a lot easier to come by and use. The armies of the most advanced nations might have them, but that's about it, and they'd mostly be used to scare enemy horses than anything else.

Artillery, however, is another story - most gunpowder is used for cannons, because accuracy doesn't matter much if you make the bullet as big as possible. Of course, most players won't have access to this, so it mainly stays in the background.

 

[cbwjm]

In my setting, guns exist, but they're expensive, inaccurate, and difficult to make and repair, with none being smaller than an arquebus. For these reasons, most people don't bother with them when swords and arrows are a lot easier to come by and use. The armies of the most advanced nations might have them, but that's about it, and they'd mostly be used to scare enemy horses than anything else.

Artillery, however, is another story - most gunpowder is used for cannons, because accuracy doesn't matter much if you make the bullet as big as possible. Of course, most players won't have access to this, so it mainly stays in the background.

Artillery might be a good addition as well as firearms. I might keep that as a possible option for my world.

Sent from my SM-G925I using EN World mobile app

 

[S'mon]

Ask the question: why do you want to add them?

Historically, bullets from guns didn't necessarily cause more damage, but their higher velocity did make them more effective against armor, at least at close ranges.

Their higher velocity means bullets tear through flesh, rather than slide through it the way knives and arrows do. This actually means a LOT more tissue damage even from a small bullet.

 

[ScaleyBob]

I'm running a Wild West themed D&D game at the moment, and Guns are fairly important. There's the usual 6 shooter, rifles, and an assortment of others. I changed the rules from the DMG a bit, as I thought the damage was a little high when compared to other weapons.

I've introduced recently the option for Alchemally Enhanced Elemental Ammunition, made by a mad Artificer living in a swamp. It does Magic Damage as well as the Elemental type, along with a simple +1 attack and damage, and an additional effect depending on the type. +d6 damage for fire, -10 ft movement for Cold, and no reactions for Lightning. The inventor is working on producing other types as I dcide on what they are. At 50gp per bullet, you'ld expect PCs to be conservative with it, but several of them burn through them like nobodies business.

I haven't bothered with any spefic Gun based classes - anything you can do any weapon you can do with a gun. I have allowed Crossbow Master to apply to pistols though.

Here's my current work in progress on guns. Some things like the Scatter Gun are I'm still trying to decide how to impliment it.

GIB stands for 'Grim Iron Bastards', a highly successful, well equiped, and technologically progressive Mercenary company.

[TABLE="width: 849"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 156"]Weapon[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 64"]Cost[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 88"]Ammo Cost[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 64"]Damage[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 64"]Range[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 157"]Damage type[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 256"]Notes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl17"]Pistols[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Derringer[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]150gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]3gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d6[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"] 20/80[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 2, ammunition, light[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Revolver[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]150gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]3gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d8[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"] 40/120[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 6, ammunition, light[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Heavy Pistol[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]200gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]5gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]80/120[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 1,ammunition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]GIB Officers Revolver[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]500gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]5gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]60/120[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 6, ammunition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]GIB"Twofer"[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]500gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]5gp for 5[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d12[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]20/80[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 2, ammunition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl17"]Long Arms[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Shotgun[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]250gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]5gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]20/60[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 2, ammunition, two handed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Scattergun[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]200gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]3p for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d8[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]30/60[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 2, ammunition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Carbine[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]200gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]3gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d8[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]80/320[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 8, ammunition, light[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Rifle[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]250gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]5gp for 10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d10[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]150/1200 [/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 10, ammunition, two handed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Heavy Rifle[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]500gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]5gp for 5[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1d12[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]150/1200[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 5, ammunition, two handed[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16"]Buffalo Rifle[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]1000gp[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]10gp for 5[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]2d8[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]200/1600[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]piercing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl16"]reload 1, ammunition, two handed, heavy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 372, colspan: 4"]Silver Ammunition 100gp for 10, plus ammunition cost[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl16, width: 308, colspan: 3"]Elemental Alchemical Bullets 50gp each

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[TallIan]

... Historically, bullets from guns didn't necessarily cause more damage, but their higher velocity did make them more effective against armor, at least at close ranges. Especially in the hands of soldiers that didn't have the upper body strength or training needed for longbows or certain melee weapons. They did fire slowly, and would be single fire weapons (or no fire weapons) in the kind of fast paced close quarter combat usually featured in D&D games.

...

They did offer much greater penetration of armour than spring and muscle powered weapons, but the D&D armour system doesn't really allow for that since armour essentially protects from 100% damage or it lets 100% through. The only way you could model this would be to make all firearms get a +x to hit, making them considerably more powerful, especially in 5e where +x to hit is hard to come by.

As S'mon points out the higher speed and lack of cutting edges means that the shot effectively bludgeons its way through causing more damage than an equivalent sizes arrow/bolt/blade.

I think both of these phenomena are best modelled in D&D by higher damage potential, since AC is a reflection of your ability to dodge a hit as well as your armour's ability to absorb the damage. This can be balanced by slower loading times, a realistic problem faced by early firearms.

As you say a big advantage to firearms over other weapons is the ability to conscript any able bodies person into the army and have them capable of fighting effectively within a couple of weeks (this won't address morale issues). I would get around this argument by pointing out that conscripts were effective in massed formations - 200 musket balls fired at once is going to do something so long as all the shooters are pointing at the same target. Muskets are horrible inaccurate, so not suited to "hero" style combat, but for the sake of fun we can argue than good training allows you to be more effective with a musket, eg. you are only making one roll to hit but actually you re reloading fast enough to get two shots out in a round.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Haven't added them as they don't really fit the genre. Have considered dwarven gunpowder cannon, with gunpowder being an alchemical material, as an emerging siege tech, though.

 

[TerraDave]

Their higher velocity means bullets tear through flesh, rather than slide through it the way knives and arrows do. This actually means a LOT more tissue damage even from a small bullet.

They did offer much greater penetration of armour than spring and muscle powered weapons, but the D&D armour system doesn't really allow for that....

I don't think a small bullet, or even a big pistol bullet, does more damage then an arrow fired from a bow used for hunting. You can go on the interwebs and see all sorts of videos and stuff that confirm that an arrow can rip through something better then a lower powered firearm like a pistol or black powder weapon.A 9mm handgun has several advantages, but I wouldn't use it for elk hunting.

What is the best weapon, a high powered rifle, of course. Shotgun under some circumstances, and actually sometimes the crossbow, which many now consider almost like cheating to use as a hunting weapon.

But, to get back to the point, why do you want guns in the game? Historically they where easier to use on the battlefield and eventually made armor obsolete. They weren't (and aren't) super weapons.

But the goal should drive the rules. To make armor more optional, then the gun could bypass it or attack vs dex (this rule is common in other systems). If the goal is something else, then the rules can reflect that.