Okay what am i not understanding about how to play a monk? They are a melee class that has to operate with ridiculously low AC. With standard point buy the highest you can reasonably get it is 14. Combined with their average hit die i dont see how a monk could survive an encounter.
How is a Monk viable?
- Thread starter pikafunk
- Start date
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
A monk can be fun to role play, a monk can be fun in combat. I'm currently playing a monk who has just graduated from 1st level to 2nd level (you can find him in the rogues gallery thread here http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=88465 )
His stats are better than point buy, I'll grant you - but that doesn't stop his feat and class ability choices making a viable character. Sure he's more fragile than a front line fighter, but with tumble and balance I can have fun getting around the battlefield. Later on if he can beg steal or borrow Wis and Dex enhancing items both add to the monks AC (and touch AC). Grappling is fun if you get improved grapple, flurry of blows can be fun too.
Bottom line: if you just look at the monk as a melee class he will look weak. As an *adventurer* class he works just fine - there are plenty of *adventure* situations that he can handle with his skills which are virtually impossible for the fighter who is so much better in combat
Cheers
His stats are better than point buy, I'll grant you - but that doesn't stop his feat and class ability choices making a viable character. Sure he's more fragile than a front line fighter, but with tumble and balance I can have fun getting around the battlefield. Later on if he can beg steal or borrow Wis and Dex enhancing items both add to the monks AC (and touch AC). Grappling is fun if you get improved grapple, flurry of blows can be fun too.
Bottom line: if you just look at the monk as a melee class he will look weak. As an *adventurer* class he works just fine - there are plenty of *adventure* situations that he can handle with his skills which are virtually impossible for the fighter who is so much better in combat
Cheers
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
pikafunk said:
Teamwork is important - allied spellcasters might be able to help you with Mage armor, Cat´s Grace, Endurance, Owls Wisdom, Barksin or similar spells.
Then, use your mobility to get into flanking positions (tumble) - this tactic is not very different from that of a rogue (who also don`t have great armor class).
Choose your targets wisely. The enemy spellcaster is a great target (you can take most spells better than the rest - good saving throws, good touch armor class, and he has little chance against someone in a grapple - a good tactic for you), but the enemy tank is not (you won`t deal enough damage, he will probably be better in grapple, and if he hits you, it really hurts)
Oh, and the usual highest stat you get with point buy is 15. (The standard array - 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 is usually a good starting point). Since Monks are melee combatans, I tend to set the 15 to strength, but there are other schools of thought...
Turanil
First Post
pikafunk said:
At higher levels (12 and above), the monk becomes among the most powerful characters. With three high saves, evasion, and spell resistance, plus an appropriate selection of feats, they eventually become unkillable. I have seen it as a DM running a campaign including a monk up to 12th level; a friend of mine is in an epic level campaign where one of the players is a 28th level monk. Despite the rogue and fighter (also 28th level) are able to deal monstrously incoherent uber damage, they sometimes die. The monk on the other hand, also deal good amount of damage, but is unkillable. He has been the only to survive the BBEG of their last gaming session and eventually kill it.
Numion
First Post
Turanil said:
I agree that the monk becomes very hard to kill at higher levels. I disagree that it would become one of the most powerful characters. It just lacks the oomph to kill stuff efficiently. Flurry of Blows is dubbed Flurry of Misses for a reason.
Hard to kill? Yes.
Powerful? No.
Thanee
First Post
Yep, the only thing monks are really good at is surviving.
I believe they can get a pretty high AC at higher levels, actually.
The 3.5 version is a bit better with the improved flurry, but that doesn't make the monk a killing machine. That's not what the class is about either.
I think the monk is only really good, if you like to play such a character and then hopefully get some allied spellcasters help you out a bit.
My biggest "problem" with the class is (apart from not liking the flavor), that in a party it has no real place. It doesn't add anything useful, which another character can't do a lot better. And it can't do enough to be classified jack-of-all-trades, like the bard. I guess it comes mostly from being so self-centered. Most monk abilities are only useful for him- or herself.
But saying that, if someone likes to play a monk, he or she can have some fun with it, I'm sure.
Bye
Thanee
I believe they can get a pretty high AC at higher levels, actually.
The 3.5 version is a bit better with the improved flurry, but that doesn't make the monk a killing machine. That's not what the class is about either.
I think the monk is only really good, if you like to play such a character and then hopefully get some allied spellcasters help you out a bit.
My biggest "problem" with the class is (apart from not liking the flavor), that in a party it has no real place. It doesn't add anything useful, which another character can't do a lot better. And it can't do enough to be classified jack-of-all-trades, like the bard. I guess it comes mostly from being so self-centered. Most monk abilities are only useful for him- or herself.
But saying that, if someone likes to play a monk, he or she can have some fun with it, I'm sure.
Bye
Thanee
Monks are good for self-centred players, true, but I've seen a team-oriented player (Stalkingblue) play one very effectively - eg at high levels she made a perfect target to centre area-of-effect spells on, she'd charge into the enemy & draw their attacks, with her high AC they'd mostly miss, then when the fireball etc hit she always saved & took no damage while the enemy mooks surrounding her got incinerated! And in tougher campaigns where death is likely, not-dying is an ability that can be a great asset to the party.
Blue
Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Monks are skirmishers, not tanks
If you play a monk like a barbarian, rushing in and taking hits, you're not playing to their strrengths. Monks are skirmishers - with their improved movement, have them circle around to casters. (Stunning blow to yet another wizard.) They get ahost of powers, some which are useful in combat and some aren't. They get all saves good as well as evasion early and SR later on, making them much more resistant to spells then others. With two stats to boost AC, you double the potential for spell or item bonuses. And of course both stats that give AC also give even better saves.
They've very effective at what they do, but what they do isn't run up and get pounded on like a front line fighter. If that's the roll they need to fill because the team doesn't work togetther, don't be surprised if they don't shine.
A quick thought about monks and point buy - I play in several games, and in all you roll stats. Point buy favors characters who only need a single prime attribute, like most casters, who can get away with lower numbers for other points (yes, Con and Dex are important, but an 18 in a casting stat and 14s in those go a long way). Monks, like Paladins, need several good stats, and are therefore fairly heavily penalized by point buy.
Cheers,
=Blue
If you play a monk like a barbarian, rushing in and taking hits, you're not playing to their strrengths. Monks are skirmishers - with their improved movement, have them circle around to casters. (Stunning blow to yet another wizard.) They get ahost of powers, some which are useful in combat and some aren't. They get all saves good as well as evasion early and SR later on, making them much more resistant to spells then others. With two stats to boost AC, you double the potential for spell or item bonuses. And of course both stats that give AC also give even better saves.
They've very effective at what they do, but what they do isn't run up and get pounded on like a front line fighter. If that's the roll they need to fill because the team doesn't work togetther, don't be surprised if they don't shine.
A quick thought about monks and point buy - I play in several games, and in all you roll stats. Point buy favors characters who only need a single prime attribute, like most casters, who can get away with lower numbers for other points (yes, Con and Dex are important, but an 18 in a casting stat and 14s in those go a long way). Monks, like Paladins, need several good stats, and are therefore fairly heavily penalized by point buy.
Cheers,
=Blue
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Here's your problem, blood. Monks ain't a melee class.
They're fist-sized human ranged weapons. Yeah, I'm talkin' Spring Attack. Combat Expertise. Maybe a mess o' Power Attack or Weapon Finesse for fun.
A monk's job is, in MMORPG terms, to 'draw aggro.' They get up there, punch the guy a few times, and laugh as the monster wastes attacks on them and they're on full defense. They don't deal damage, they annoy the hell out of a beast, making it mess up -- namely by attacking them. A monster who has to waste a standard action readying an attack for their springiness is a monster who isn't using a spell-like ability or making a full attack against their friends...monks make the monster waste turns while your friends wail on 'em.
Monks don't walk up to a monster and drive it to the floor. They do, however, step on his tail, poke him in the eyes, and kick him in the junk.
-- Been Playin' Too Much FFXI KM
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Inconsequenti-AL
Breaks Games
Teamwork is definitely the way forward with a monk.
Like others said, there's the caster killing side to them.
They're particularly good at setting up flank attacks - making them a rogues best friend.
One of the deadliest combos I've seen was a high speed rogue and a grappling monk... pin 'em down and sneak attack 'em to death. Wizards beware!
As a melee fighter, I find their AC works out fine, but their accuracy can leave a lot to be desired. The cleric BAB and difficulty/expense of magical attack options can really hurt against high AC opposition. Amulets of mighty fists really are not cheap!
Like others said, there's the caster killing side to them.
They're particularly good at setting up flank attacks - making them a rogues best friend.
One of the deadliest combos I've seen was a high speed rogue and a grappling monk... pin 'em down and sneak attack 'em to death. Wizards beware!
As a melee fighter, I find their AC works out fine, but their accuracy can leave a lot to be desired. The cleric BAB and difficulty/expense of magical attack options can really hurt against high AC opposition. Amulets of mighty fists really are not cheap!
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