How is a Monk viable?

[two]

wont' shine

One thing that every post seems to mention here:

The monk survives, and cause some minor tactical havoc (high AC, blocking corridors, taunting opponents, etc.).

But the monk never shines. Sometimes a perfectly placed "grease" spell changes the course of a battle. Or the paladin's critical lops off the last undamaged mook's head in one blow. Or the sneak-attacking rogues gets off a good one (finally!) doing something horrible to an enemy cleric.

The monk, well.

It's frankly HARD to get the monk to "shine." Moment of glory, and all that. Think of the monk as a linebacker, doing the grunt work. Speedy, high saves, SR, but not... well... not typically doing "heroic" stuff that saves the party. Heals people when everyone else is down via potions -- yes. Resists the necromancer's attacks -- yes. Chases down the very injured enemy mage -- yes. All useful but, well. Some people find that thrilling. Some don't.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Though if playing in the FRs, there is a nice dwarven racial feat: Hammerfist, that allows a dwarf to make uanrmed strikes 2-handed. If going with the Str route, makes for an excellent power attacking monk.

 

[Darklone]

Hammerfist is broken hehehe

Monks are fun for players who like to gamble. And Stunning Fist is often underrated vs. opponents, it's a monks edge for trading full attack actions with fightertypes. Get Ability Focus. Stun, Disarm, Trip, Grapple...

 

[Toras]

A monk can shine as much as anyone at high level, but you have to make it that far. High level monks (ones with High Str at least) can do serious damage, especially with the right combination of feats. Circle Kick for one is a poor mans Whirlwind attack, but really helps you regulate on low ac opponents. Flying Kick means that first charge in does some damage. Roundabout kick + Improved Crit + Keen Fists, means that you are criting much more often and doing additional attacks every time you do.

Many monks can go a difference way, using improved trip, grappling, and various pressure point skills. My suggestion to anyone playing a monk is to at least look at OA, it wil help.

 

[buzzard]

In my experience Monks are survivors, but not much else. If I'm going to be in a party and I'm given the choice of a monk or a fighter as a comrade the fighter will always get the nod.

I've played plenty of LG with monks present and they tend to be merely present.

Then one other thing, when doing point buy, things like monks aren't that bad. Given the sliding scale which makes really high stats prohibitively expensive, but a bunch of 14s are pretty affordable. For example in LG weher you get a 28 point buy you can easily get a:
Str 14
Dex14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Chr 10

Which is really quite acceptable for a monk.

buzzard

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Everyone keeps talking about how good monks are buffed up. But what if I used those same buffs on a fighter or anyother class?

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

A side thought. The monks skill set is a really good one.

Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Reckon that's the best skillset outside of the Rogues and Bards - IMO, can make quite a difference inside or outside of combat?

 

[kigmatzomat]

One thing that every post seems to mention here:
The monk survives, and cause some minor tactical havoc (high AC, blocking corridors, taunting opponents, etc.).

But the monk never shines. ....The monk, well. It's frankly HARD to get the monk to "shine." Moment of glory, and all that.
[\quote]

I disagree. IMC the monk is often a good deciding factor. When his grapple finally goes off, the rogues move in for the kill, the power attack goes to max and things just get eviscerated. Sure, his odds aren't that great for each shot when fighting gargantuan beasts but with so many attacks it only takes a round or two.

Then there are the times that the monk outruns the flying guys, gets to the monster first, and distracts it from the village. Or makes a massive vertical leap to grap an aerial monster and drag it to the ground.

 

[Janx]

Well, in my game, the monk's been saving everybody's arses in the last 2 games. Serious kill factor. And this is a 4th level party, no magic weapons or armor. No buffs.

Party content was:
2nd level mage
5th level rogue
5th level monk
4th level cleric

Swap out the mage for a 4th level paladin in some games (complicated story). The monk has been doing very well. Would a straight fighter or barbarian do even better? probably. But he's had some good scenes and he's definitely playable.

We're doing 3e rules (not 3.5) and the monk don't suck. As a note, when we ran Flurry of Blows through the calculator, it came out to be a better deal.

As we figured it, the monk had a +4 attack with his fist for 1d6

Versus an AC 15 enemy, he needs an 11 to do 3.5 damage

With Flurry of Blows, same enemy (2 attacks at +2 to-hit each for same 1d6):
13 to do 3.5 AND
13 to do 3.5

Statistacally that comes out to:
11 for 3.5 = 1.75 damage average per round (50% chance of hit)
math was: (21-11)/20*3.5

13 for 3.5 PLUS 13 for 3.5 = 2.8 damage per round (40% chance of hit each)
math was: (21-13)/20*3.5*2

So under those conditions, it always paid to do Flurry of Blows. Strength bonuses don't really change anything. In the end, the math abstracts to you do 10% less damage than average, but then you double it, how can that not be a good deal?

Not sure how 3.5 chaned the Flurry of Blows. Nor have I compared it to other feats or high level multi-attacks. But at low level, it was a pretty sweet deal.

 

[Janx]

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