How is D&D of any edition realistic?

[vulcan_idic]

Because in D&D character Level has a direct impact on such things via Hit Point distribution. I wanted to point out that certain things relevant to specific situations in D&D are generally accepted as irrelevant in similar real life situations.

But you didn't point this out - at least not in a logical, clear method of communication. You quoted statistics based on the assumption of a highly skilled/experienced individual, and, while provideing no comparable statistics of a nonskilled/experienced individual in the same circumstances, quoted statistics of a theoretically comparably skilled character in the game. Then you stated that experience has zero proven bearing on the issue. The fact that you specifically pointed out that the quoted statistics assume a highly skilled/experienced person, in the absence of any support to the contrary calls into question your claim that such skill/experience has no bearing.

If your intent was merely to point out that probabilities were off, why was it necesary to point out your were quoting statistics based on an assumption that you claim, "have zero proven bearing on one's ability to survive a free fall from hundreds of feet in the air" why not just leave out the assuption. To put it another way, what you said there was akin to saying, "The odds of my shopping for a sword like that in the real world, assuming it rained last weekend, are something on the level of greater than 1 in 1,000,000. In D&D, assuming a Level 10 character, those odds are more like 1 in 3. [Note: In real life, weather patterns the previous weekend have zero proven bearing on one's tendency to go shopping for a sword.]" If the weather patterns are irrelevant to your argument about buying a sword as your last state ment claims (and I would wager most of us would agree that it is) why do you take the time that you are assuming it in the first statement thus causing the reader to expect that there *is* some as-yet unseen correlation between the facts only to later refute the expectation that you yourself set up? This confuses the reader and clouds your message.

 

[jdrakeh]

Apparently we have some folks stuck on calling me a liar and refusing to move past that in pursuit of an explaining the relationship between D&D and Earth's own reality. To that end, in an effort to illustrate that calism of absolute reality simulation do exist, I provide an argument for D&D as a simulation of absolute reality that magic has merely been added to:

Actually, many many aspects of it are real life. Gravity. Wind. Weapons. Food. Commerce.

The argument that DND does not simulate these well does not mean that it does not model them.

DND is a model of the real world combined with a model of a magical world. Always has been. The real world model elements allow people to comprehend and co-relate to what is happening, regardless of whether what is happening is magical or not.

A fireball still burns.

This is actually a pretty good argument with regard to certain elements of D&D. That said, I'm not sure one can genuinely argue that D&D is "realistic" if it models only some elements of reality absolutely while discarding others (already cited in my initial post) wholesale -- but, hey, at least the guy is giving it a shot. Bonus: No name calling!

 

[jdrakeh]

But you didn't point this out - at least not in a logical, clear method of communication.

I've since clarified the point. This should suffice. Can you provide examples of what I'm looking for? If all you can do is attack my character or points that have since been clarified, I'd ask that you not respond further to this thread as character assassination is clearly off-topic.

 

[jdrakeh]

1-3e cannot be "more" realistic than 4e without some sort of basis of realism for 4e to take away. Examples of that realism that is being degraded is what is being requested.

Thank you. Sometimes, I suppose, less words work better

 

[vulcan_idic]

I've since clarified the point. This should suffice. Can you provide examples of what I'm looking for? If all you can do is attack my character or points that have since been clarified, I'd ask that you not respond further to this thread as character assassination is clearly off-topic.

I'm sorry to have offended you sir. I didn't realize that you would interpret debating logic, semantics, and other academic aspects of a particular essay as akin to character assasination. I have no intent to disparage your person and indeed have little knowledge of you with which to make any statement of you personally, all I can comment upon is the essay.

I shall simply conclude then saying what I said at the end of my original post. Despite some disagreement with presentation of the logic of your case, I concur with the thesis of your case and have for some time, even to the point of having dismissed such claims as being quite humourous. Sweet water and light laughter to you.

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

The problem with this premise is that you will get either no posts, or somewhat ranchorous posts either for the premise or stating examples that won't hold up. Because simulating reality is not possible in a fantasy game.

 

[jdrakeh]

Because simulating reality is not possible in a fantasy game.

You have obviously never played Phoenix Command

More seriously, while I agree that 100% reality simulation is not possible within a fanastic environment (still, though, claims are made), I think the argument that different degrees of reality simulation are obtainable (even high degrees) has merit. I am not convinced that it has merit in the context of D&D, however.

I'd simply like to see some examples of how any edition of D&D has achieved a markedly higher degree of reality simulation over any other edition of D&D. Or, more specifically, as Rechan mentioned earlier, I'd like to see examples of reality simulation present in one edition of D&D that are specifically being degraded in the other edition of D&D that it is being compared to.

These specific examples seem to be notably lacking from many critiques -- and, again, for those folks trying to make this a 3.5 versus 4e argument, I state that this has held true of nearly every edition comparison made over the years with regard to levels of reality or unreality (notably comparisons of AD&D 1e and 2, IMHO).

 

[Primal]

1-3e cannot be "more" realistic than 4e without some sort of basis of realism for 4e to take away. Examples of that realism that is being degraded is what is being requested.

Well, I thought I presented certain examples on another thread, in response to your post. Of course, I'm only speaking of my own perspective how I see 4E moving away from whatever level of "realism" or "simulationism" 3E established.

 

[jdrakeh]

I'm sorry to have offended you sir. I didn't realize that you would interpret debating logic, semantics, and other academic aspects of a particular essay as akin to character assasination. I have no intent to disparage your person and indeed have little knowledge of you with which to make any statement of you personally, all I can comment upon is the essay.

I shall simply conclude then saying what I said at the end of my original post. Despite some disagreement with presentation of the logic of your case, I concur with the thesis of your case and have for some time, even to the point of having dismissed such claims as being quite humourous. Sweet water and light laughter to you.

I saw your questioning of my intent and your decision to further focus on technical ambiguities in my first post (ambiguities since clarified) while simulataneously questioning my logic and linguistic skill as. . . well. . . as an attempt to provoke an overtly negative response from me. If this was not your intent, I apologize for my misunderstanding.

 

[Crothian]

I'd simply like to see some examples of how any edition of D&D has achieved a markedly higher degree of reality simulation over any other edition of D&D.

3e is less realistic then OD&D

3e has many more magical items, spells, and things of fantasy like monsters in all of its books. That makes it less realistic then OD&D with its very few books.