How is D&D of any edition realistic?

[Kzach]

How does a bamboo dart kill a 21st level one of those 100% of the time?

Congratulations!

You've missed the entire point of minions!

 

[lutecius]

I already have. Am I willing to go out of my way to find more because you can't be bothered to look for them yourself? Well. . .

...Well I'm not the one saying they are recurrent, why should I bother looking for them myself? However, if my first assumption in a thread was challenged at once by several posters, I'd certainly try to provide many examples.
The thing is, all these people claiming that dnd is particularly realistic in all those threads didn't exactly jump in to defend that claim, did they?

It does not claim the second thing, granted, though it very specifically claims the first and the last things. KarinsDad very specifically mentions Gravity and Wind, then states:
His very argument is, in fact, that D&D does model Earth's physics, though not necessarily well. He further goes on to give behavior of Fire as an example of a thing in D&D that models real life physics, realistically. [...]

So we don't have just different experiences, we have different interpretation and logic.
I cannot speak for Karinsdad as to what he meant, but to me, saying dnd attempts to model many aspects of the real word as opposed to just fantasy is not the same as saying that on the whole dnd is realistic or dedicated to model the real world.

If you're willing to ignore those very specific examples and arguments made on behalf of D&D as a physics engine, that's all well and good -- however, it also makes clear that you will ignore any further examples of such argument that I search out, making the endeavor a complete and total waste of my time.

If all the examples of what you "keep reading" take so much effort to cite and are akin to this one, then yes, that would be a waste of time.
I'm not ignoring anything. As I said, different interpretations...

 

[LostSoul]

Although thinking on it, not completely unrelated. As I said before, it's a lack of internal consistancy that bugs me.

How does a bamboo dart kill a 21st level one of those 100% of the time?

It penetrates its holy brainpan?

Minions are internally consistent - they all die from one successful attack that does damage.

What I'm hearing from you is that, depending on the fluff of the character, you want it to be tougher. Or do you just want all level 21 creatures to be tougher?

If the latter is the case, just strike the "level" part for minions and use the XP as an encounter-balancing mechanism.

 

[Arnwyn]

Am I willing to go out of my way to find more because you can't be bothered to look for them yourself? Well. . .

Well, yeah - since you're the one who made the unsubstantiated claim in the first place.

I'm quite shocked, in fact, that your OP wasn't riddled with quotes/links. So far, quoting one guy doesn't make for an impressive thread.

I'm with everyone else - I haven't seen what you saw. Sorry.

 

[Psion]

It penetrates its holy brainpan?

Minions are internally consistent - they all die from one successful attack that does damage.

What I'm hearing from you is that, depending on the fluff of the character, you want it to be tougher. Or do you just want all level 21 creatures to be tougher?

Sounds like the reverse of the 3e commoner problem to me. In 3e, I never likes the idea of "commoners" of levels > 10, so I just didn't use them. I think in 4e, I might eschew using high level "minions".

Edit: however, considering the title of this thread, there's no way I would call this a "realism" consideration.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Sounds like the reverse of the 3e commoner problem to me. In 3e, I never likes the idea of "commoners" of levels > 10, so I just didn't use them. I think in 4e, I might eschew using high level "minions".

Edit: however, considering the title of this thread, there's no way I would call this a "realism" consideration.

Hehe, the feeling on Commoners sound familiar.

I take it like this: Yes, there are 21st level Minions that could, theoretically, in a lucky event, be "one-shotted" by 1st level PCs. That's why you just don't use this combination. You don't send other 21st level creatures after your PCs, so don't do it with Minions, either. It's a matter of "scale". On the epic scale, a Angel of Valor is a Minion. On the heroic scale, he's a regular (or elite?) monster. (I say scale since it is not the same as the tier, though a level difference of 10 might be a good guesstimate for the point where the scale changes.)

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

I would actually say that since minion status is in relation to PCs anyway, there are no 21st level minions until the PCs are much higher level than 1st. I am not sure of the cutoff, but I do know that 21st level minions do not exist for 1st level PCs. No inherent problem of accidental leveling in this theoretical encounter at all.

 

[Andor]

Congratulations!

You've missed the entire point of minions!

What makes you think that?

There is a difference between understanding something and agreeing with it you know.

Minions are internally consistent - they all die from one successful attack that does damage.

They are consistent with each other sure. They are not consistent with the rest of the world. Thus the annoyingly visible discontinuity.

I would actually say that since minion status is in relation to PCs anyway, there are no 21st level minions until the PCs are much higher level than 1st. I am not sure of the cutoff, but I do know that 21st level minions do not exist for 1st level PCs. No inherent problem of accidental leveling in this theoretical encounter at all.

Who said anything about level 1 pcs? Where did that come from? Unless there is some (utterly stupid) rule forbidding it my 29th level Paladin/Justiciar/Epic Dude could happily run around all day with his 1 damage dealing blowgun popping minions like soap bubbles.

But not commoners. They have 2 hp. So do puppies.

 

[LostSoul]

They are consistent with each other sure. They are not consistent with the rest of the world. Thus the annoyingly visible discontinuity.

They are as consistent as you wish to describe them.

The rules between minions and non-minions are not consistent, sure. That doesn't mean they have to be different in the game world, from the point-of-view of the characters in that world.

As it stands, the game world difference is that minions are wimps in relation to the PCs. (We don't know enough to know how minions relate to other NPCs.) If they used normal hp rules, the only difference is that they would be harder to kill.

Again, I'll ask: would you just like them to be tougher?

 

[PrecociousApprentice]

Who said anything about level 1 pcs? Where did that come from? Unless there is some (utterly stupid) rule forbidding it my 29th level Paladin/Justiciar/Epic Dude could happily run around all day with his 1 damage dealing blowgun popping minions like soap bubbles.

But not commoners. They have 2 hp. So do puppies.

If there is any problem with this it is in the fact that your proposed blowgun does even 1 HP damage. Does it make any sense that 35 tiny darts should take out a 1st level fighter. No, it doesn't. What makes sense is that if we assume that a weapon can do enough damage to any character in game to potentially be lethal, that given the right narrative setup (not GNS narrative), one should be able to one-shot a NPC for cinematic purposes. I have a problem with taking out minions with blowguns too. Just not with minions.