How is Old School not at least related to nostalgia?

[Aus_Snow]

I think one of the primary reasons adults are interested in Fantasy (which I capitalize to imply the broad field of any kind of imaginative activity related to the fantastical, whether reading, writing, artwork, RPGs, etc) is to try to capture, or re-capture, this sense of wonder, which is akin to a sense of "God." When we are children before our own "Fall", which happens with the awakening of sexuality between around 12 and 15 (although sometimes earlier these days), we are awake to this wonderment, this Mystery. But then we lose it.

Wow. This theoretical version of reality sounds terrible! I'm rather glad that my experience of life on this Earth has, thus far, differed greatly. And that I'm not the only one, for that matter!

And I'll leave it there for now.

 

[Mercurius]

Wow. This theoretical version of reality sounds terrible! I'm rather glad that my experience of life on this Earth has, thus far, differed greatly. And that I'm not the only one, for that matter!

And I'll leave it there for now.

How does what I wrote sound terrible? I don't see it, or maybe you're not really understanding what I'm saying. But I will say that my view is informed by studying developmental psychology and various educational theories, so it isn't merely some sort of auto-didactic pie-in-the-sky perspective. If you're the only person in the world that lives outside of the basic principles of psychological development, more power to you .

Another way to put it is that people--both individually and collectively (historically)--are born into a kind of quasi-paradisical state, a non-differentiated consciousness where they are not separate from the world. Gradually, and then suddenly with adolescence, separation occurs, thus the myths of the Fall that are central to just about every mythology. The ego/individuality manifests, not fully formed and "here" until about 21 (although this varies) and one inhabits a solely external world. Many people enter some kind of mid-life crisis or search for meaning sometime in their 30s or early 40s (although it can come about earlier), where the world-as-it-is no longer satisfies, or rather the culturally normative explanations don't satisfy. I would say that, unfortunately, the vast majority of people find some sort of succor from a belief system or lifestyle that satiates rather than "cures" the dissatisfaction. Very few go the other way, which is inward, the Grail Quest.

My point is that the sense of wonder that David Zindell spoke of is a deep experience of reality that we had as children but often lose as adults, or at least to the same degree. But I am also saying that we can not only re-capture it but manifest a new order of it that is ultimately more satisfying because of our own added creative impulse and participation.

Terrible, I know

 

[darjr]

eh.

I play 4e in part out of nostalgia. When I play the older games, it is indeed, in part, because of nostalgia. It's not the only reason, not even the major one.

Nostalgia is not a dirty word to me. I wear mine with honor.

Am I nostalgic? You bet your red little box I am.

I'm very sorry that, for some, it's an insult or derision.

Maybe it isn't the term that is the problem, but it being used by folks that wish to dismiss, deride, or insult?

I'm perfectly fine with the fact that people play old school games for all the other reasons that games get played, and not out of nostalgia. What I don't find and have trouble accepting is that the 'movement' is largely devoid of nostalgia.

 

[Mercurius]

I'm very sorry that, for some, it's an insult or derision.

Maybe it isn't the term that is the problem, but it being used by folks that wish to dismiss, deride, or insult?

I actually find that to be far less frequent than people interpreting its use as dismissive, deriding, and insulting. This is not to say that some use it deliberately pejoratively, but that the reaction against such usage is far greater than the actual usage itself.

EDIT: One other note. One thing that I have realized through this thread is how negatively people interpret the word nostalgia, which I saw (and see) as pretty neutral, or rather context-dependent. But many feel that it is inherently a negative term, which I disagree with. I think this has something to do with equating it with irrationality and sentimentality and concurrently identifying those as inherently negative, which is at the root of the problem.

In other words: Guys, it is okay have feelings

 

[grodog]

Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics series is marketed specifically on the basis of nostalgia.

"Remember the good old days, when adventures were underground, NPCs were there to be killed, and the finale of every dungeon was the dragon on the 20th level? Those days are back."

One could hardly get a clearer invocation of nostalgia than the phrase "Remember the good old days".

That's an excellent example of a strongly-positive take on nostalgia, without the negative connotations that the term can (but doesn't always) carry. Great point, Doug!

 

[Gentlegamer]

So I think that for many, if only on some very sub-conscious level, this yearning for wonderment, the Mystery, for God even, comes through playing RPGs, which is a creative activity that plays in the fields of imagination and, if you're lucky, stimulates that sense of wonder. For me it is harder to find it in the act of playing an RPG unless I have a really terrific DM (which I don't think I've ever really had). For me this comes mainly through my own creative practices, mainly writing, which is composed of world-builiding, myth-weaving, and story-telling. I get glimpses of it in certain writers--Tolkien, Le Guin, Zindell, Kay, Erikson, Moorcock, and a few others. But the most profound moments come through my own creativity.

I agree with C.S Lewis on this: Everyone gets his stabs of Joy in different ways; one never knows where it will come from. One thing is certain, the moment you turn your attention to the Joy itself in order to "capture" what exactly is causing it, it will elude you. Joy (and Fun) is a by-product of some other activity; it cannot be a mere end in itself.

 

[Bullgrit]

Maybe if someone would name some other cool/fun/good things that people/we do partly out of nostalgia?

There are movies I watch, books I read, and music I listen to partly because of nostalgia.

Bullgrit

 

[Aus_Snow]

I will say that my view is informed by studying developmental psychology and various educational theories, so it isn't merely some sort of auto-didactic pie-in-the-sky perspective.

Ah. I see.

I knew there had to be some kind of theoretical basis to that post. Turns out that's the particular species? Right-o. Objective truth it clearly does not (necessarily) make, informed by studies or no. Assuming that it does is likely courting some kind of 'fall', ironically.

If you're the only person in the world that lives outside of the basic principles of psychological development, more power to you .

As I specifically noted, that is not the case - to the best of my knowledge, anyway. But never mind the facts, eh?

 

[rogueattorney]

Maybe if someone would name some other cool/fun/good things that people/we do partly out of nostalgia?

There are movies I watch, books I read, and music I listen to partly because of nostalgia.

Bullgrit

Music.

Cheesy metal music from the 80's makes me nostalgic. I don't think it's very good. I don't listen to it, generally. But it does remind me of the times I had with my buddies, when I was a kid.

The Beatles, Bob Dylan, and Rolling Stones I listen to all the time. I do so because I enjoy it and think it's very good music. I'm not particularly nostalgic about it, because I was too young for the peak of those artists careers and didn't really discover them until later in life.

When I play Encounter Critical, when I dm my B/X campaign set in Goodman's Points of Light setting, when I'm exploring all the new and interesting ideas in the adventures by XRP, Fight On! magazine, and so on, I feel more like when I'm listening to the Beatles and not the cheesy metal.

There are certainly games and products that feel to me more like the metal... Marvel Super Heroes RPG and some of the late 80's Forgotten Realms products, to name a couple. But those sit on my shelf largely unopened for a decade, much like my cassette tapes of "Asylum" by KISS and "Slide it In" by Whitesnake sit in a closet somewhere un-listened to.

My single longest running campaign as a kid was a messy Basic/1e/2e mix based in the Forgotten Realms. Four of the seven other guys who played in that campaign, although we're now scattered across the country, remain my best friends. But I have absolutely no desire to play in that campaign again, or attempt to reproduce it.

And I think that's one of the single biggest thing those labeling this OSR thing as nostalgia miss. We don't want to play these games the same way we did when we were 12. We want to approach them as adults and explore them in an entirely new way. Hence the explosion of new product. We're not trying to recreate old experiences, but create new ones.

 

[S'mon]

Mercurious:
"this sense of wonder, which is akin to a sense of "God." When we are children before our own "Fall", which happens with the awakening of sexuality between around 12 and 15 (although sometimes earlier these days), we are awake to this wonderment, this Mystery. But then we lose it."

Hmm, my personal 'sexual awakening' was around age 5-6, reading the Ladybird children's edition of "The Princess and the Pea", and turning to the very first page where there's a picture of the Princess coming in out of the rain in a very wet gown... *hubba* ...I don't recall losing any 'sense of wonder', though. Quite the reverse.