D&D 5E How much does initiative add to damage output?

[mellored]

If it is a fireball against a horde of low level creatures it may be a lot more. A hold person against few higher level creatures is also a lot more So high initiative is especially good for casters and against them. Against othe wepon users who damage more steadily it is not too important.
(although a sharpshooter may kill one or two creatures before they even act and thus reduci g incoming damage a lot. Maybe you should value high initiative as a damage prevention tool rather than an increase damage tool.

Any class that has a nova round (fireball, action surge, hold person, stunning strike), is going to have a bigger result from going first.

Which, now that i think about it, is every class but the barbarian, and most rogues.

Also, enemy power usually diminishes. If you face 4 enemies, kill 1 per turn, then you take 4 attacks +3 attacks +2 attacks +1 attack =10 damage if you loose, but 3+2+1=6 if you win. Hard to say if that's a reasonable assumption or not, but probably closer then my initial estimate.


So.. 40% less damage * 4% chance to win * 1.5 pulled out of my nova round multiplier =

2.4% less damage per initiative.


Making alert (*5 = 12%) pretty balanced with +2 Con (10% if you have 10HP per level).
Unless your a barbarian or non-assassin rogues. Then +2 Con.

 

[Pickles III]

Making alert (*5 = 12%) pretty balanced with +2 Con (10% if you have 10HP per level).
Unless your a barbarian or non-assassin rogues. Then +2 Con.

Alert also means you are never the surprised, which can be like winning initiative twice. It's also essentially proactive & so more fun.

That also means that a S&B Dex20 fighter will do about 106.5% of the damage of a S&B Str20/Dex10 fighter. Melee wasting a turn to reach the target has a much bigger impact, something around +25%.

I don't think it's worth considering.

The waste of melee attacks being a bigger deal is certainly true. Ranged is a bit too good in 5e with not suffering any real penalties & doing the almost same damage as melee whilst all of the inherent advantages you get from fighting at range.

Winning initiative is relevant with novaing, focus firing & short combats. If a party of PCs can drop another PC in a round then in a mirror match always winning initiative would be worth a whole extra PC (except then the opposition would be effectively winning initiative so about half a PC).
Always winning is about +12 to initiative for about 10-12% extra value so about 1% per +.

Which is less than I would have thought but more than a magic player would value working with.

I don't think we are going to get a really good estimate as there are too many variable assumptions +1 initiative is worth between .05 and 2% :0

I do have one friend who really values initiative & going first - Improved initiative on high dex characters etc. He does not seem to value perception at all which occasionally means just super winning initiative by acting in the surprise round/when surprised.

 

[mellored]

Alert also means you are never the surprised, which can be like winning initiative twice. It's also essentially proactive & so more fun.

Con also comes with other benefits, like not getting poisoned and keeping haste up. Still close enough to even IMO.

Of course, it depends heavily on your DM, and how often he ambushes you.


But as for fun, i'm sure alert wins. Do more things >> take more hits.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Seems like a good estimate. Nice how everything is balanced well enough. A good initiative helps in many cases, while a good strength and constitution will allow you to just take one more hit. Initiative is all or nothing but effective when you win (and don't miss your first attack). Constitution is always on and more reliable.

 

[Rhenny]

Interesting ideas up thread. Tough to nail down specific numbers since there are so many situations to consider.

The assassin rogue has to love anything that gets him or her the highest initiative (advantage and sneak attack bonus on damage can dish out nice damage especially when surprised foe takes a crit!).