LostSoul
Adventurer
Most of the in-game divination spells should get the axe, or, at the least, they should be heavily nerfed.
I'd like to hear more.
Most of the in-game divination spells should get the axe, or, at the least, they should be heavily nerfed.
Not. Even. Close. If a DM designs a dungeon with a lair guarded exclusively by golems and the wizards have any clue at all that this is going to be the case then only specialist evokers (already the weakest mages) are going to be slowed by the Spell Immunity.
Almost the entire Conjuration school ignores spell resistance and immunity. Which mean that four the unholy five combat conjurations (Grease, Web, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud, and Evard's Black Tentacles) all work on golems with no questions asked. Stinking Cloud, of course fails because Golems are constructs. But also because Golems are constructs, they have terrible saving throws. Of the SRD listed ones, only the CR 16 42 Hit Dice giant stone golem has a save in excess of +6 - and for a CR 10 monster to have saves of +2 and +3 means they are going down like a chump to a low level spell like Glitterdust - even a humble Web will hold all except the big monster a few rounds.
The wizard is laughing at the golems, punking CR 10 monsters that were designed to be his bane with second level spells - and that without using all the versatility @Victim suggests (must spread XP around...) to simply avoid the golems above.
1. You missed the part where in the golem section it says that all golems are immune to magical and supernatural effects unless otherwise noted.
1. You missed the part where in the golem section it says that all golems are immune to magical and supernatural effects unless otherwise noted.
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This is the biggest problem with people bagging on 3e. They never bothered to learn its rules and make mistakes. Then judge the system based on their mistakes.
"Magic immunity" is defined in each golem entry as only providing immunity to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. Those spells don't allow spell resistance, so they all work just fine. Even if you try to say the first entry supersedes the others, it obviously doesn't since it says "unless otherwise noted" and it is "otherwise noted" in every single entry below.
You are generally correct in those spells don't instantly kill the golems, but they generally render them non-threatening enough that the wizard's party can take them out.
Depends on whether or not you're playing 3.0 or 3.5. Golems in 3.0 were immune to most of those effects. But 3.5 nerfed their immunities down to being immune to spells and spell-like abilties that were subject to spell resistance. I'm not even entirely sure that was intentional. I have this nagging suspicion that they were just trying to be more precise with the language, but that may be an uncharitable reading of it.
No its not, its noted in the entry for Golems in general as immunity to everything they are not specifically weak to. So unless they are listed as vulnerable to it in their specific entry they are immune to it. So unless you find; vulnerability GLITTERDUST or something similar in their specific entry it doesnt touch them.
So those spells dont actually, in any way nerf the other members of the party. Rather they assist the other members of the party in stopping the golem from turning the wizard into an ugly bit of PC paste on the floor.
Yes?
And so rather then making the wizard superior to the other classes it actually makes him DEPENDENT (or inferior) to the other classes. Yes?
Because without them, sooner or later the golem catches him and makes wizard pizza. Right?
1. You missed the part where in the golem section it says that all golems are immune to magical and supernatural effects unless otherwise noted.
Grease? Covers a 10 foot area and has a DC10 balance check. Maybe you slowed him down. For one round, or 2. AND? You didnt win. You slowed him down.
Web? Must be anchored to 2 diametrically opposed points within 20ft of each other. Making it pretty much only useful in small corridors. And even then it doesnt beat the golem, it slows it for a round or two. A strength check lets you move 5 feet for every 5 points by which you beat a DC10 on a STR check. Most golems have no problem rolling a 15 or 20 on a STR check and gain it only affects a 20 foot area.
Glitterdust? In the MM do you see a weakness to glitterdust listed in any golems description? I dont. That means it doesnt work. See part 1.
Black tentacles can grapple them but cant actually HURT anything but a flesh golem. And that not very much.
So... you've slowed it down, and mildly annoyed the flesh golem.
How do you actually WIN? So far you didnt hurt squat and certianly didnt defeat them.
This is the biggest problem with people bagging on 3e. They never bothered to learn its rules and make mistakes. Then judge the system based on their mistakes.
The language I quoted was copy and pasted from the 3.5 monster manual.
They are immune to any spell or supernatural ability unless otherwise stated in their entry. Period.
Golem :: d20srd.org
"Immunity to Magic (Ex) A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.".
Not so much. The other players could just as easily be wizards, and summon a few monsters to deal with the golem. It just means the wizard can't solo the golems if he's low enough level that he has to rely on mid-level spells to deal with them.