How nerdy are you about English?

[Orius]

Part of me wants to complain this is all about Nationalism. I think the reason most English speakers complain online is they assume that the person on the other end is an English speaker. Which, is a bit wrong-headed, but unfortunately the norm.

I'm much more accepting of a foreign national attempting to speak my language (I've been on the reverse when I was stationed in Germany) than I do for some punk kid who is either too lazy or too apathetic to learn the correct usage of their native language . THIS is what I think is getting lost in the issue here, that many of the reasons people are edgy about it is because of the decreasing proficiency of supposedly native English speakers.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it really burns my butt when Germans and Italians (yeah for them) speak English more precisely than Americans, English, Irish, Scots, etc. (boo for the morons). It doesn't even have to be perfect, just APPEAR to be trying.

Yeah I agree. I don't go this far about grammar:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4vf8N6GpdM]YouTube - Grammar Nazis[/ame]

but I do get irritated with immature cretins who use some sort of hideous bastardized patois of leetspeak and texting. Even more annoying is when you correct them for improper use or tell them to rephrase their statement properly so everone can actually read it and they get pissy about it. The biggest irony is non-natural Anglophones who apologize about their English before they start and then type up something that if spoken would be Standard American English or Received Pronunciation.

 

[Thunderfoot]

I have a tendency to poke fun at (funny) misspellings of the English language.

Oddly this doesn't apply at all when it comes to my own language. But they do say that Finnish is notoriously difficult to learn, so I guess anyone who does it becomes exempt from ridicule.

I apologize beforehand because it's been almost 20 years ago, but it was either a Finn or Dane that said, "The hardest thing to say in my language for any English speaker is 'strawberries with cream', all you do is say 'hafahk mi flahk' (I think that was what he said) while grabbing your tongue and pulling it over your head." All of the Nordic languages are notoriously hard for English speakers, but at least it isn't Mandarin Chinese.

 

[jonesy]

Heh.

'Strawberries with cream' in Finnish is 'mansikat kerman kanssa'. In Danish I think it's 'jordbær med fløde'.

How hard they are depends on what you're used to I guess. In Finnish you need to know how the words divide into sounds (man si kat ker man kans sa). The Danish pronounciation has you touching the back of your palete with your tongue which can be pretty difficult.

 

[Stumblewyk]

Huh. I tend to get more upset about native English speakers who refuse to use proper grammar and spelling than about non-native speakers who struggle with learning and mastering an admittedly vexing and frustrating English language.

I'd much sooner make fun of the moron who types in "text speak" or who pronounces "ask" as "aks", but is a native English speaker , than a foreigner trying to learn the language. =/

 

[cyderak]

There are a few things in this world that will never make you a hero. Such as eating glass, jumping off a bridge or learning English.

Writing to message boards and living one year in Ireland has shown me that people who speak English as a native language tend to be real douchy to people who've learned it as a second language. I've tried to analyze why is it like that. Some possibilities come to my mind:
- These people don't understand what it's like to learn a new language, so they don't appreciate it.
- They hate seeing or hearing anything else than perfect and natural English. Any deviation from this will distract them.
- It's their hard way to encourage people to learn more and speak better.

Well one thing that I do know is that this is cultural. For the past three years I've studied Brazilian Portuguese and I speak it like a retard. But still it was an amazing experience to travel to that beautiful country and the people really appreciated that I had learned Portuguese. No dickness, no wise-ass comments, no derailing from the subject just to correct me. Just politeness and some healthy humility ("oh, our language is not the center of the universe").

But I do admit that it would be worse if no one would ever correct me or tell me that 'you're doing it wrong'. I just find it extremely insensitive to make fun of people just because they speak or write imperfect English.

If you got two choices to make: Either telling a person that he or she is committing to a repeated grammatical error or cracking a witty remark to score points, which one is your choice?

Your living in Ireland........Their not exactly known for being the most subtle of people.......Especially when drinking.

And If I was learning a different language, I would hope someone would correct me if I was screwing up so I don't make the same mistake in the future and avoid looking like a Dumb-ass.

Maybe your just hanging out with the wrong people. Maybe your luck with friends has led you to a group of manly men who enjoy giving each other flack for every little thing. Hang out with more laid back people.

Were they kidding with you or were they serious. Maybe you gotta relax and take a joke once in a while. Everyone in a social circle takes for different things. One guy may stink. One guy may be the stupid guy in the group. Maybe your role was just another quirky personality that makes up your eclectic group of friends. Don't know what to tell ya unless I was there to see it for myself.

Like I said. If everyone would just learn how to take a joke a little more in life we all might be able to do away with Political Correctness. (To a certain degree).

 

[Hackmaster]

If someone knows you are not a native English speaker, they generally are very tolerant. If they think you are a native speaker and are butchering the language, you're fair game for ridicule.

There's a lot of willful ignorance floating around where people just don't care if they speak the language properly and they get very defensive when you point something out to them. This tends to annoy people who place significant value on effective communication.

Personally, I never poke fun at someone who is not a native speaker, I commend their efforts for learning additional languages and do everything I can to encourage and help them.

 

[Umbran]

Some possibilities come to my mind:

The basic point is very simple - if you don't talk like Us, you are one of Them. Human tribalism runs pretty deep. And it isn't just a matter of native English speakers treating non-native speakers poorly about language use, specifically.

Back in high school, I took four years of French. I could carry on reasonable conversation. But trying to communicate with people in Quebec was like pulling teeth. I had better luck using English than I did my non-native-accented French.

You can even see the dynamic between different accents of English, where some accents and colloquial speech patterns are correlated with socio-economic status and political leanings, and you can see strong cases where someone who speaks with the wrong non-local accent can get treated like dirt.

Humans, are, unfortunately, pretty darned disappointing at times.

 

[billd91]

Your living in Ireland........Their not exactly known for being the most subtle of people.......Especially when drinking.

So it's the drunk stupid Paddies, eh? Lovely.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

The basic point is very simple - if you don't talk like Us, you are one of Them. Human tribalism runs pretty deep. And it isn't just a matter of native English speakers treating non-native speakers poorly about language use, specifically.

This is also very interesting, because some cultures - tribes in this case - are welcoming to outsiders (with little language-skills) whereas some are much more demanding before you're accepted into the fold - if ever. The amount of xenophobia does very quite wildly from country to country.

As a side-note: Being a foreigner is not always without advantages. For instance even though my heavy and rolling English accent didn't win too many hearts in Ireland, I did notice that I almost always received better service than the locals. Even the Gardaí went to some lengths just make sure that I'm feeling ok, while ignoring the Irish. This did amaze (and disgust) some of the natives.

 

[Umbran]

The amount of xenophobia does very quite wildly from country to country.

It might be more accurate to say that if varies from culture to culture - you can have multiple sub-cultures in a country.

As a side-note: Being a foreigner is not always without advantages. For instance even though my heavy and rolling English accent didn't win too many hearts in Ireland, I did notice that I almost always received better service than the locals. [/quote]

Well, there may be a profit motive at work there - you have a different accent, so you're probably traveling. Travelers traditionally spend more money at a time than regular locals.