D&D 5E How Old-School is 5th Edition? Can it even do Old-School?

[Malmuria]

I talked about this with some other people, and I think the simple tweak to reduce XP for encounters by half and more, and using the variant rule to have one short rest per night and long rests as a week off in a secure town or stronghold should go quite a long way to improve things in this regard.

Casting create or destroy water as a 1st level spell produces enough water for 5 characters even in hot environments. That's one 1st level spell per day to completely negate the water needs of an average party. But if you have to cross a desert for a whole week, and don't regain spells until you reach the safety of the other side, that starts to seriously bite into a druids spells total for the desert crossing. A 3rd level druid would have to use all spell slots to provide water for five people for eight days. Characters won't likely die from dehydration in the desert if they don't bring water, but that threat would hover over them any time they get into a fight and the druid is consider using a spell to help with the immediate threat.

Cure wounds looks similar. It becomes a considerably greater investment any time you use it, if you have to ration your spells for a whole week or even two.

Of course it wouldn't emulate BECMI, but those two tweaks alone should result in a significant change in pace and tone, and they are about the most common variant rules I've ever seen discussed or mentioned.

As others mentioned, the exploration mechanics in 5th edition can barely be called a system. But I think in that case, you can pretty much plug in the old BECMI system as it is without even having to do much in the way of modifications. Use wandering monster checks and tables, use reaction rolls, apply the Morale mechanic. And I guess make the return of a treasure to a town a milestone that awards XP.

In the one 5e game that I'm in, I'm playing a water genasi. They get create water 1/day as a racial ability at third level. The desert crossing scenario is still possible, and still a challenge, but there are little things like that everywhere in the game that can surprise you, and you have to plan your challenges accordingly. In a way, it requires you to take world building seriously: what does a desert crossing look like in a high magic world? Unfortunately, the game doesn't really answer this question aside from "6-8 level appropriate combats per day to drain resources." As a player, often the answer, or at least a good part of the answer, to any challenge is on your character sheet. That's still fun; it allows people to easily chip in to address a challenge. But it's not really the open-ended back and forth that characterize OSR play.

 

[DND_Reborn]

what does a desert crossing look like in a high magic world?

(bold added)

I see that as the biggest point from one group to the next. How "high magic" is your world? The "typical" (if such a thing exists...) D&D world?

Also, the desert example, even if you can create water and somehow store enough, it still evaporates some if it is a "hot" desert. Also, in such climates the amount of water needed can be much higher than in cooler climates.

 

[overgeeked]

(bold added)

I see that as the biggest point from one group to the next. How "high magic" is your world? The "typical" (if such a thing exists...) D&D world?

The default is determined by the game itself. Even a PHB-only game is already high magic. To make a D&D game less than high magic requires limiting what’s available from the books. You’d have to remove most or all casting classes to get close to a low magic setting.

 

[overgeeked]

Except for quick character creation, my 5E games have all of this, though I don't quite understand the need for specific "rules" for exploration.

What house rules do you use to achieve that? The default rules goe directly against those things.

 

[Smackpixi]

Sometimes I wonder if the dislike for power escalation of players is a lack of creativity by the DM. Like, maybe some DMs want to keep sending the same orcs at their players, and get mad if the fighter has an insta death longsword. I mean, let’s give Conan the insta death sword, and then attack him with rubberpeople who bounce off all slashing attacks with no damage but are knocked 10 feet away, Conan can now still instakill but needs to corner them so they can’t bounce. it’s weird, and complicated, but interesting.

In that context, seems boring and lame to want to deny players power so you can just hit them again with the same ole goblins, in the same ole cave.

 

[guachi]

Yes, 5e can feel old-school. Though it does depend on what characteristics you feel are important. I've run several campaigns that used nothing but old 1e AD&D and D&D modules, nothing published after 1989. It required some house rules but nothing too crazy.

Only one of the players had actually played "Old School" D&D but he thought my campaign was a good simulacrum.

This from @Mannahnin is basically what I did.

1. The Gritty Realism rules, ie: a Short Rest is overnight, a Long Rest takes a week.
2. Healer's Kit Dependency, ie: you can't just spend hit dice unless someone bandages you.
3. Slower level progression. Either use milestones or simply halve or quarter the xp given by monsters.
4. Morale rules for monsters.

 

[payn]

Sometimes I wonder if the dislike for power escalation of players is a lack of creativity by the DM. Like, maybe some DMs want to keep sending the same orcs at their players, and get mad if the fighter has an insta death longsword. I mean, let’s give Conan the insta death sword, and then attack him with rubberpeople who bounce off all slashing attacks with no damage but are knocked 10 feet away, Conan can now still instakill but needs to corner them so they can’t bounce. it’s weird, and complicated, but interesting.

In that context, seems boring and lame to want to deny players power so you can just hit them again with the same ole goblins, in the same ole cave.

For some folks, the adventure is more interesting than the combats. The story, the exploration, the challenge of the entire adventure is what folks are after. Not just killing stuff all day every day.

 

[Malmuria]

Sometimes I wonder if the dislike for power escalation of players is a lack of creativity by the DM. Like, maybe some DMs want to keep sending the same orcs at their players, and get mad if the fighter has an insta death longsword. I mean, let’s give Conan the insta death sword, and then attack him with rubberpeople who bounce off all slashing attacks with no damage but are knocked 10 feet away, Conan can now still instakill but needs to corner them so they can’t bounce. it’s weird, and complicated, but interesting.

In that context, seems boring and lame to want to deny players power so you can just hit them again with the same ole goblins, in the same ole cave.

Well, we don't live in a world with magic. So sure, lack of creativity, but what the PCs can do just with their basic abilities can surprise you as a dm. Early editions have an implied magic level that is low, so PCs work somewhat within the bounds of reality similar to what we know ("hero, not superhero). 5e provides lots more options for players to circumvent challenges, but not a lot of built in options for DMs to provide challenges given the higher magic and higher power levels. And I don't mean just combat challenges; for example, there are several 5e abilities and rules that make navigating an environment easier and more reliant on character ability, rather than being a challenge for the players. (neither style is wrong, btw).

 

[Mannahnin]

Right. It DOES require more creativity to design interesting challenges for high level characters than for low level ones. Characters who have various magical movement options, scrying and magical information gathering, etc., can ignore or easily negate some challenges which would have been insurmountable at low level.

This is part of why reviewers like Bryce Lynch have commented on how rare and cool high level adventures which actually do this are, rather than cheating by cancelling out player abilities ("teleport doesn't work in this dungeon", etc.). Similar phenomenon to how writing a comic book story for Superman is challenging- because stuff that challenges lesser mortals is trivial to him, so you have to be more creative and present problems his powers don't automatically negate.

 

[Smackpixi]

I don’t disagree with Payn or Malmuria, Im Just wondering about an attitude of this much magical weird, but not that much. Why is there a line?