How powerful is this class ability?

[Question]

In several commander-oriented PRCs, they have this ability that lets nearby allies fight on till -10 hp, if they stop fighting they either die instantly or have to make fort saves(depending on the PRC). Seeing as on average these would only allow someone to keep fighting for 1 round more, in many cases they would get overkilled past -10 anyway, how useful is this?

 

[Sejs]

Moderatly useful. There isn't really an objective scale to measure it against, so really that's the best you can get.

Look at it like this: it's a situationally useful ability, the utility of which scales with the number of people it's operating on. In a standard adventuring party of 4-6 people, it's rather hum-drum, but with the nice feature that Down no longer necessarily means Out. You can drop to negative hit points and since you're still able to function, you can pop a healing potion, withdraw from the fight, take cover, cast a spell, or whatever. Not bad, particularly because it's one more thing standing between a resource-valuable PC and death, but not blow-your-socks-off amazing.

On the other hand, if it's being used by an officer in command of a hundred-man strong force, all of a sudden the utility increases sharply. Now each one of those one hundred soldiers has 10 extra hit points. In a large scale battle, that's a big deal. Means things like if an given combatant can take two hits and stagger away, or three hits and go unconscious (generally tantamount to death), your guys can all of a sudden each take four hits and still have enough in them to fall back and get stabilized, and it takes five hits to actually kill them. All of a sudden, your soldiers are each worth two of the enemy. On a grand scale, abilities like that win wars.

 

[Question]

I need to check the text but wouldnt falling back to get healed be considered "stop fighteing"?

 

[DM_Matt]

I need to check the text but wouldnt falling back to get healed be considered "stop fighteing"?

As a PC ability being used on a party of PCs, its terrible, especially at high levels when 10 hp is less significant. Generally speaking, when a PC gets taken down they sit in the negatives for a couple rounds, and live when the PCs win the battle. The baddies would meanwhile switch the focus to real threats, in hopes of winning the fight. While these extra HP may rarely prevent a TPK, more often than not it means more PC deaths in battles the PCs win. Remember, negative HP were added to the game to make it less deadly. It is a rule that greatly benefits the winning side of a battle, which is usually the PCs themselves.

 

[Sejs]

I need to check the text but wouldnt falling back to get healed be considered "stop fighteing"?

Depends on the ability in question. Most of the ones I've seen don't have any sort of you-must-keep-attacking-or-die provision, but rather simply state that you can continue to operate at negative hit points up to a max of -10.

But as you said, for a given ability you'd have to check the pertinent text.

 

[Victim]

Yeah, characters acting at negative HP are characters that are still priority targets at negative HP. That means more hits on people who can't take them. It's a rather mixed blessing for a group of PCs.

On the other hand, the negative 10 HP rule is pretty useful for 1st level NPC guys. Especially with a lot of them. A 1st level crap warrior probably has like 5 or 6 HP, so this pretty much triples them. Low level guys can remain active after weak AoE effects. If the soldiers are smart enough to retreat when badly injured, then clerics will probably be able to save more people too. And the clerics could be placed deeper in the unit, so they're more likely to stay alive too.

 

[MarkB]

Yeah, characters acting at negative HP are characters that are still priority targets at negative HP. That means more hits on people who can't take them. It's a rather mixed blessing for a group of PCs.

Or even for individual PCs. In the last campaign I DM'd, one PC was a Shifter with the Shifter Ferocity feat. On one occasion, the feat saved his life, as he was able to continue fighting at negative HPs and get in one more strike which slew his opponent. Later, the same ability cost him his life, as he remained standing and fighting at negative HPs against an opponent who wasn't just one strike from death, which continued to attack him since he still presented a clear threat.

 

[librarius_arcana]

In several commander-oriented PRCs, they have this ability that lets nearby allies fight on till -10 hp, if they stop fighting they either die instantly or have to make fort saves(depending on the PRC). Seeing as on average these would only allow someone to keep fighting for 1 round more, in many cases they would get overkilled past -10 anyway, how useful is this?

Thats not to bad, Sure I've seen this some place too, or at least something very like it, I would allow it,

 

[Question]

Legendary tatician from dragon lance campaign setting : Any allies within 30 ft of the legendary tatician can fight while disabled or dying at no penalty until -10 hp. If they stop fighting they have to make a immediate fort save(DC 15 + 1 per -1 hp below 0) or die on the spot.

Funningly enough i cant find other PRCs with similar abilities, although i definately do remember some.......

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Given the extreme brutality of D&D mass combat, generically speaking it is a pretty good bonus because being unconscious from negative on the losing side means you are probably going to bleed to death anyway or your opponent will dispatch you after the battle.

Basically it lets you stay in the battle for "+1 hit" in a situation where most combatants only survive 1-3 "hits". That is a big boost in staying power.

But it is kinda sucky for PCs who do not generally get involved in mass combat (because it is such a pain for the DM) or do not want to be big fat targets and killed outright (better just to fall unconscious and hope your buddies can rescue you).