How precise can you time a delay?

[Lord Pendragon]

Say I have a PC with Spring Attack. Also in the party is a rogue.

Is there a way, by delaying or some other mechanic, for me to time my Spring Attack so that my PC is present during the rogue's attack (thus flanking and allowing sneak attack damage), but gone before and after?

In other words, can I perfectly sync my standard action to coincide with the rogue's, so that I retain the benefit of Spring Attack (not being near a target, and thus not subject to a full attack,) while still affording my teammate a chance to flank?

 

[Silveras]

Say I have a PC with Spring Attack. Also in the party is a rogue.

Is there a way, by delaying or some other mechanic, for me to time my Spring Attack so that my PC is present during the rogue's attack (thus flanking and allowing sneak attack damage), but gone before and after?

In other words, can I perfectly sync my standard action to coincide with the rogue's, so that I retain the benefit of Spring Attack (not being near a target, and thus not subject to a full attack,) while still affording my teammate a chance to flank?

The short answer is "No", because your turn will always begin and end before or after the Rogue. Spring Attack (per 3.5 PH) allows you to move both before and after attacking, and you must move at least 5 feet both before and after, up to a total of your normal movement. That is a combination of a Move and a Standard action, so you cannot even ready it. For you to provide a flanking bonus to the Rogue, you must arrive before the Rogue attacks, and leave after the Rogue attacks. You simply can't do that with Spring Attack (because it requires you to move-attack-move).

I am sure there are other feats (3rd party or non-Core WotC) that let you make synchronized attacks, but none that I know of would alter Spring Attack as you are seeking.

Delaying, or readying, simply lets you take your turn before or after another ... nothing in the Core books (that I know of) lets you divide your turn so that part happens before or during and part after.

This is one of those "you can't have your cake and eat it, too" situations.

 

[Caliban]

You can do this, but not with you readying. Have the rogue ready an attack for when you spring in and make your attack.

This will limit him to a single attack, but will give him the benefit of flanking, since the trigger for his attack is you being in flanking position.

 

[Silveras]

You can do this, but not with you readying. Have the rogue ready an attack for when you spring in and make your attack.

This will limit him to a single attack, but will give him the benefit of flanking, since the trigger for his attack is you being in flanking position.

Hmm...yes, I was too focused on the Spring Attack character. That might work. But it would have to be set up carefully. If the target is more than 5 feet from the Rogue, he'd have to ready a charge, which would actually help his attack a little.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

You can do this, but not with you readying. Have the rogue ready an attack for when you spring in and make your attack.

This will limit him to a single attack, but will give him the benefit of flanking, since the trigger for his attack is you being in flanking position.

Thanks, guys! This is exactly what I was looking for.

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Hmm...yes, I was too focused on the Spring Attack character. That might work. But it would have to be set up carefully. If the target is more than 5 feet from the Rogue, he'd have to ready a charge, which would actually help his attack a little.

What's wrong with moving into position and then a ready? If you're doing this the Fighter should start by delaying until immediately after the Rogue. The Rogue moves, readies (A move plus a standard). The fighter springs in, triggers the ready, then takes his attack and leaves. It works alright.

Of course, the rogue doesn't get any extra attacks from BAB or TWF, which isn't a problem until higher levels.

Then again, the baddie will be annoyed and the only one he can reach safely will be the rogue. Really it's just a complicated way to get the rogue dead.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the target is more than 5 feet from the Rogue, he'd have to ready a charge, which would actually help his attack a little.

Can't Ready a Charge in 3.5.

Unless you're a zombie, or Slowed, or it's the surprise round...

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Well, I'm not trying to kill the rogue!

It's more like, I'm playing a bard. He has a decent AC, but with only d6 hit points I don't care to have him standing next to critters if he can help it. Especially since he doesn't do much damage in the first place. Usually, he stays away from his foes using Spring Attack, Tumble, and the 15 ft. reach of his Whip-Dagger.

However, since damage will never been one of his strongest suits, I've been trying to think of various strategies to assist the damage-dealing power of the party. Using my attacks to flank for the rogue seems like a good idea. We have a large party, so it's more than likely that most of the time, someone else (fighter, cleric) will be flanking for the rogue anyway, but in the case that they're otherwise occupied, I thought I'd get a grasp on the rules I'd need to use to jump into the breach.

Obviously, one of the simplest strategies is for my bard to simply Start Fighting Defensively and remain in a flanking position for the rogue. So long as his AC and hp hold out, that'd give the rogue the opportunity to full attack every round, which is good. However, a couple good hits, or a crit, and my bard won't be able to hold that position. Then it turns to hit and run.

Currently we're a 5th-6th level party. The rogue (not sure if he's a full rogue, multiclass, or prestige, but he definitely has sneak attack dice,) dual-wields daggers. So getting him that full attack is a good idea. But again, only so long as my defenses hold up. Once I start getting banged up, I have to change strategies.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

double post

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

Well, I'm not trying to kill the rogue!

I want to play with more players like you. I've recently seen a bevy of pure fighters with spring attack who are scared of damage. Standard D&D assumes that fighters take the attacks the rest of the party can't.

It's more like, I'm playing a bard. He has a decent AC, but with only d6 hit points I don't care to have him standing next to critters if he can help it. Especially since he doesn't do much damage in the first place. Usually, he stays away from his foes using Spring Attack, Tumble, and the 15 ft. reach of his Whip-Dagger.

Got it. See above comment. With 15ft of reach to safeguard you, 'being' in melee is a relative term.

However, since damage will never been one of his strongest suits, I've been trying to think of various strategies to assist the damage-dealing power of the party. Using my attacks to flank for the rogue seems like a good idea. We have a large party, so it's more than likely that most of the time, someone else (fighter, cleric) will be flanking for the rogue anyway, but in the case that they're otherwise occupied, I thought I'd get a grasp on the rules I'd need to use to jump into the breach.

Really, you need to join my playgroup. A shame about the day commute you'd have. (I totally agree with your assement. You rock.)

Obviously, one of the simplest strategies is for my bard to simply Start Fighting Defensively and remain in a flanking position for the rogue. So long as his AC and hp hold out, that'd give the rogue the opportunity to full attack every round, which is good. However, a couple good hits, or a crit, and my bard won't be able to hold that position. Then it turns to hit and run.

May I suggest the absolute wonder that is Mirror Image? It's simply an amazing defensive spell against physical attacks.

Regardless, if the rogue is dual weilding you might want to take a round on/round off tactic. Spring into flank, wait a round, spring out of flank. You do need to move before and after so in those cases take your attack out of flank then end in flank.

It'd go:
Rogue delays.
Bard springs in, Rogue ends delay to stab the bad man.
Bard delays.
Rogue stabs the bad man some more.
Bard spring out.

Course, the bad man gets to do somethings in there as well...