How Quickly Do You Bounce Off a System?

[Squared]

For me it was the first RPG I ever played, D&D3.5. After getting home from that game I immediately started thinking about making my own game, eventually finding that there was a whole universe of game systems that are not d20 based.

Another example is Burning Wheel, after hearing great things about it I bought it and sat down to read it from front to back. When I finished I realized that I could not remember a single thing that I had just read. It was in English, the words did form complete sentences, but not a word of it stuck around in my head. Not sure if it is me or if the ideas were just so obtuse that my brain just flushed them rather than waste storage space.

^2

 

[GuardianLurker]

Eh. Like others have said, about the only thing that causes me to completely bounce off an RPG is the setting - if it's not one my players will enjoy, or not one that I can (enjoy), it probably won't get played.

This is outside of RPGs that I buy "on spec" without every intending to actually run them. These are games I buy because I've heard they have interesting mechanics, or treat with "table-play" subjects in interesting manners. Frequently, I'll try to play in them at a convention or game store, if I'm really impressed with them, but otherwise, they just fall into the "research" pile.

Then there are the few that I actually try with my group in one-off/experimental sessions.

TL;DR: I have a sliding scale of "investment" based on the first read.

 

[dragoner]

Point is, people are going to lean into doing the things their characters are good at. If that's combat, expecting them to avoid that is probably a loser. If you want a game with very low combat, you should have a character generation system that isn't going to produce specialists in combat as a reasonably likely result.

Though Traveller is life path directed by the player, they often will choose to be something like a marine, when the better route is a merchant, easier to get into, and easier to survive and advance. It hits beginning refs/GM's the hardest because a lot of people think Space Marine, 40k and it is nothing like that.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Though Traveller is life path directed by the player, they often will choose to be something like a marine, when the better route is a merchant, easier to get into, and easier to survive and advance. It hits beginning refs/GM's the hardest because a lot of people think Space Marine, 40k and it is nothing like that.

I'll just point out that the oldest versions of the game did not even have merchant as an option, and as I noted, in a game that classically had two main models supported being mercenaries, its still perverse to tell people combat is a mistake.

Basically, if that's what Traveler really wanted, it was poorly designed it from the get go. I'm just not sold it was what it wanted or combat was more intrinsically lethal than in other games of a comparable period once you got outside the D&D sphere (I didn't see any more people die in Traveler than in RuneQuest, and it'd be a pretty hard claim that the latter was designed to avoid combat).

 

[dragoner]

I'll just point out that the oldest versions of the game did not even have merchant as an option, and as I noted, in a game that classically had two main models supported being mercenaries, its still perverse to tell people combat is a mistake.

Basically, if that's what Traveler really wanted, it was poorly designed it from the get go. I'm just not sold it was what it wanted or combat was more intrinsically lethal than in other games of a comparable period once you got outside the D&D sphere (I didn't see any more people die in Traveler than in RuneQuest, and it'd be a pretty hard claim that the latter was designed to avoid combat).

Merchant was there from the beginning. Indeed though Mercenary was book 4, one did get Citizens of the Imperium which had a lot of non-military careers too. If one counts scouts as non-military, fully half of the original careers are non-military. There was a definite duality though, though I also think that Marc meant it as more representative of the era when every male had served in the military, he is a decorated Vietnam veteran. His example of the game in "Understanding Traveller" though is all narrative, and no rolling, others I think wanted a war game, not surprising as that was GDW's stock and trade. It was way more lethal than RuneQuest, combat usually lasted a few turns before people were out, surprise was key, if you got shot you were pretty much done. Once Book 4's Gauss Rifles were used, they were like death rays, killing everything.

 

[John Dallman]

I can bounce very fast if a game has an objective that I'm not sympathetic with. Examples:

• Fantasy Hero went on about how to design characters for the media you wanted to emulate. I don't: RPGs are their own genre, and trying to emulate a different one just makes things harder.
• D&D 4e was too nakedly a game, and used mechanics that had no diegetic justification at all, such as "once per encounter" abilities.

In both cases, I found the problem early in reading the book, thought about it, and gave up at that point.

 

[MNblockhead]

Whether TV series, books, or games, as I've gotten older I've gotten more and more willing to drop something if it isn't keeping my interest. I'm much better at not falling into the sunk cost fallacy.

But this conflicts with my goal to only buy and back things that I'm actually going to play.

I find with games, I'll put in a fairly significant investment of time in a new game systems and push past my reaction to drop something that seems like too much work and will try to at least run a one-shot. Usually, when I drop a game now it is mostly that I'm just putting it on the backburner, with the hope to run a game in it when I have more time and play in person.

Three examples over the past few years:

Mage: The Ascension. I put a lot of effort and a not insignificant amount of money on PDFs. I ran a couple of session but I just didn't enjoy running it, so I stopped that campaign just as it was getting started. Part of it was also due to time. My players could have been the rules masters, but I was finding the work of creating a campaign and adventures on top of my main D&D campaign was just too time consuming.

DCC Dying Earth. I really want to run a campaign in this setting and with the DCC system, but not until I either can run it in person or until their is good VTT support.

The Expanse. The rule system was easy to pickup and I enjoyed the rules, but after a one shot, I found that I enjoy consuming books and TV in that world than running games in it. The core book is the only one I bought, plus some PDF adventure material that came with the Kickstarter. But the physical book is more of something I read as a fan of the show. I doubt I'll run any games in it again.

An even bigger issue is finding players and time to run some of the more indie, experimental systems.

 

[Retreater]

But this conflicts with my goal to only buy and back things that I'm actually going to play.

I rarely purchase or back products I have no intention to play. By the time I get the item in hand, I sometimes have a change of heart, however. Especially after I read the product and give it more consideration.
There are games that were highly praised that I dropped almost instantly - even without reading the full rulebook. The Fantasy Trip & RuneQuest come to mind as two that I couldn't get into at all.

 

[Juxtapozbliss]

I think this is a very interesting question. And it happened to me with Free League too!!!

I buy lots of RPG systems - all PDFs. So much easier to read digitally. I have probably 50 or so in my queue to eventually read. I tend to give up when I'm about halfway through the core book - either a GM guide, full rules, or a starter set - if something rubs me the wrong way. I usually feel that I have enough to explore, and I don't feel obligated to "stick it out" and read the whole thing.

For context with Free League, first I read Blade Runner, and I loved it. I'm running the starter adventure for my team right now. But then I started reading Tales from the Loop. I got about halfway through and read a sentence about a roll for "seduction" and I was like...nope. I was already a bit creeped out thinking about us 40 - 50 year old dudes playing tweens, and then came upon a sentence about rolling for seduction and that immediately was a big NO. Moving on.

Then I read the Coriolis starter set. Not bad, I may come back to it. It didn't grab me, but I haven't ruled it out.

Next I tried Vaesen. I generally was interested in the setting, but after about halfway through, I got turned off by the option to play Christianity-powered characters. Just not comfortable with that spin on modern religion. I'm a Buddhist/atheist and don't really like Christianity being introduced into my games, but also - I just didn't like the lack of balance. Why not say you could play a Buddhist or Hindu character with the same powers? Don't really care that it was semi-historical for 1800s Scandinavia because they say you can make it any degree of historical you like...so why not make it more inclusive?

Now I'm reading Aliens RPG. So far so good.

The other system I bounced off of was Trinity Continuum. I was looking for something to play a modern day espionage game, and about halfway through...I just got lost in the rules. I was like, ugh...doesn't fit me. And I do enjoy some very crunchy games (Hero System 6e), but I couldn't grasp the overall set. Oh well.

So anyway, as I said...I get about halfway through the core book or a starter rules it would seem before giving up.

 

[Retreater]

I buy lots of RPG systems - all PDFs. So much easier to read digitally

I think my issue is that - while I don't mind reading PDFs - I prefer having the print copy to pass around a table if it sees actual play. I often feel that purchasing a PDF separately, then turning around and purchasing a print copy (bundled with a PDF) is something of a waste. [However, I suppose it's a bigger waste to buy a $50 hardcover/PDF combo and never play the thing!]
The starter sets is a different issue, especially when you get components like character packs, custom dice, etc.