How Quickly is C&C Catching on?

[Breakdaddy]

Mongoose bought a license to use Conan, as far as I know (or else it's not copywrighted; many Mongoose games are licensed).

It kind of seems like just because Mongoose gave money to license Conan and C&C Licensed OGL at no charge that you feel Troll Lord isn't morally entitled to release C&C. The problem with that logic is that the OGL expressly PERMITS Troll Lord to use the system free of charge! Would it seem more valid to you if cash somehow changed hands? I dont mean that in a snippy manner, it is a serious inquiry. If you feel that TLG has a moral obligation to pay for the use of the OGL in this manner then I kind of understand where you are coming from, but it's a free use license, which is good for everyone, IMO!

 

[Treebore]

I passionately disagree with this statement. I've run some fantastic rules-light games, and I'm definitely a good DM. Since 3E, I've gamed more, but the system has never made it easier for me to be a good DM. Often it's made it harder, because your concentration isn't on things like pacing via watching the players' reactions and interest level. I've also played in some bad games, and 3E didn't do a thing to help them.

That's why I'm so interested in C&C, to see if there's something here to keep me playing D&D-style fantasy, but still run good games.

I used to agree with you, but I recently went back to playing a 2E game under a really good DM. This really showed me what about 3E makes the game better. Yes, there are a lot of things that make 3E a "burden" at times, but it is an improvement over 2E in terms of determining what characters can do, how well they can do them, the movement rules, etc.... So in that regard it helps a DM be a better DM, because the rules do make it easier for you to adjudicate, consistantly, how things get resolved in the course of a game session.

Does it add to the complexity and have the potential to slow down the game and effect roleplaying? Yes, but it definitely can help a DM to DM better.

As for helping bad DM's to DM better, clearer rules force bad DM's to at least meet a minimum standard. Eventually, they may even get the clue on how to become a better DM, so I will stay with my statement.

 

[Desdichado]

Who else is playing it, what do you think, and do you have the sense that it's grabbing lots of people?

It seems like there's a real trend to the 1E "feel" and rules lite movement these days (someone already did a thread about the rules-lite phenomenon)...

I have the sense that there's a handful of really vocal supporters online, and other than that, it's just another d20/OGL product -- nothing particularly exciting to your average Joe Blow gamer.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have the sense that there's a handful of really vocal supporters online, and other than that, it's just another d20/OGL product -- nothing particularly exciting to your average Joe Blow gamer.

I think you are right about this, and I think this is also true of games like HackMaster. It doesn't mean the games are bad, just very niche-focused. Matter of fact, the online support for such games helps them to actually exist, or at least remain alive for longer than they would have otherwise. 25 years ago, or heck, 10 years ago, such games would likely either never have been published, or would have died quick, quiet deaths. I agree that the online game community is a small element of gemerdom in general, but the internet does help gamers connect with others of like mind, and I'm betting this will increase as the years go by and the internet gets into more households. Gamers can be a stubborn bunch; I'm sure there are still Morrow Project (for example) players out there, who somehow kept the game alive before the internet existed, so imagine how many games will be kept alive now that a unifying tool like the internet is around.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Also, if WotC, as current owners of the D&D name, decided to play to nostalgia, I wouldn't have a problem with it - nor if an individual GM's homebrew did so. It just bugs me at a gut level to see another company doing so.

Mongoose bought a license to use Conan, as far as I know (or else it's not copywrighted; many Mongoose games are licensed).

WOTC never made a game that felt like D&D to me, so I'm glad they gave other companies the ability to do so. Like others have said, this is more like 3e should have been for my taste. 3.x just isn't my bag. So hats off to WOTC for the OGL!

 

[Henry]

The OGL plays less to nostalgia, more to current popularity (and even more to familiarity). Almost every reasonably experienced roleplayer knows how to play d20, whether they like it or not - and many do like it. As such they know the gist of how to play an OGL game.

Also, if WotC, as current owners of the D&D name, decided to play to nostalgia, I wouldn't have a problem with it - nor if an individual GM's homebrew did so. It just bugs me at a gut level to see another company doing so.

Mongoose bought a license to use Conan, as far as I know (or else it's not copywrighted; many Mongoose games are licensed.

Actually, the OGL was designed for JUST this sort of purpose, IMO. There's a market for tons of niche product, but only in smaller runs of each individual niche. Since WotC can't market to it all, be it genres, settings, advice, nostalgia, or what have you, it's up to smaller publishers to do it. A score of smaller publishers are doing their support work for them, and they reap the benefits of keeping people in the hobby.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

It kind of seems like just because Mongoose gave money to license Conan and C&C Licensed OGL at no charge that you feel Troll Lord isn't morally entitled to release C&C. The problem with that logic is that the OGL expressly PERMITS Troll Lord to use the system free of charge! Would it seem more valid to you if cash somehow changed hands? I dont mean that in a snippy manner, it is a serious inquiry. If you feel that TLG has a moral obligation to pay for the use of the OGL in this manner then I kind of understand where you are coming from, but it's a free use license, which is good for everyone, IMO!

I don't think Troll Lord is doing anything the least bit unethical or immoral, certainly not illegal; I just find it personally exasperating. IMO, C&C is the GoBots to D&D's Transformers.

I do have to clarify one thing, though: the OGL lets Troll Lord base rules of the d20 system (and as such, 3.x). It doesn't include the exact flavor of D&D, or anything from past editions. If Troll Lord were to actually release a copy of Basic D&D or 1e, they'd be outside their legal rights. They haven't. They've just tried to capture the flavor of those older editions, using rules based off the d20 system.

If Troll Lord licensed D&D (like Kenzer & Co. did, for example), it wouldn't bother me a bit.

The inelegant rules still would, though.

 

[Steverooo]

As this is not the place for me...

???

Enter, and be welcome!...

 

[Ry]

How about Polymorph?

 

[The Sophist]

... Race/class limitations? Aside from a few PrCs (and the "Races of" series or DM fiat provide ways out even for those), those were removed from 3e, and good riddance. Hardly integral anymore.
...

Dude, you've mentioned this a few times, but it is completely wrong.

There are no race/class limitations in C&C. The C&C PHB only lists "typical classes" for each race.