D&D 5E (2014) How should be the future Oriental Adventures.

[Panda-s1]

Yes, I agree. But the analogy doesn't work because it compares one thing that is demonstrably wrong based upon available science with another thing that is interpretive, subjective, and psychological in nature.

okay

 

[Chaosmancer]

The only way to make it go away is to call it what it is, and decline to participate/obey/submit.

This might be overstepping, but all of these calls for how this "new" cancel culture is destroying everything, causing the death of free expression and ruining the potential of any work being released that touches on any subject got me thinking.

It got me thinking because underneath my computer is a copy of the works of Emily Dickinson. Emily, and Walt Whitman, are both incredibly famous poets. I also did not learn until I was in college that both were lesbian/gay and wrote some very explicit works in that respect. Works that were nearly destroyed by censors.

Thinking of LGBT works, I am reminded that Achilles had a "friend" during the war. Patroclus. A man whom he cared for so strongly, that their dying wish was to be cremated and their ashes mixed so they could be together for eternity. Long depicted as "really good friends" instead of, you know, being deeply and madly in love with each other.

So, let us say that from the date of a random Dickinson poem, 1854, that LGBT people have been censored, their works destroyed or warped to remove them from the public consciousness. They were few in number, with little social power, so they had no choice but to make do as best they could.

Not that LGBT individuals never were shown in popular media. Many ugly stereotypes were persisted and lied about for years.


Now, with social media, they have a powerful voice. Now, they are looking at TV shows and works of art that depict them poorly and are demanding a change.

Now is the time that those in power should decline to participate. To refuse to submit to censorship and bully tactics. Who should stand by and call for the freedom of any artist to depict anything in any manner they choose, because, if we censor them, what might we lose? What damage might be done to the free expression of art if you are so scared to offend someone, that you never write anything?

But to me, right now at this moment? It seems awfully convenient to point to the crimes done against minority artists, thinkers, and writers by the people in power, and for those same people to say "Hey, you can't do that to us. It was wrong, so you can't be for doing that to us. We need diverse voices to uphold the sanctity of art."

 

[Derren]

well this Asian is saying that. drop the sales of OA.

also this argument makes no sense. some people who live on this Earth believe it's flat, that doesn't mean I have validate their beliefs or even come to a consensus over the nature of the shape of the Earth.

What makes you think that the Flat Earhers here are the ones denying the racism of a

 

[Micah Sweet]

It seems to me that, given the heat at present, WotC won't be releasing anything significantly based on a non-western culture for a long time, if ever. It's just not worth the risk of not recouping their sunk cost in production if there's another protest of offensive content. Better to play it safe for the foreseeable future, even though that means less creative content.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

It seems to me that, given the heat at present, WotC won't be releasing anything significantly based on a non-western culture for a long time, if ever. It's just not worth the risk of not recouping their sunk cost in production if there's another protest of offensive content. Better to play it safe for the foreseeable future, even though that means less creative content.

I agree with you, they will probably play safe in what they publish. However, even that can turn sour. Think of Aundair, a country full of "arrogant people", interested mostly in fashion and wine? A country whose canonical anthem has a line "March on ! March on!" that's copying the Marseillaise line "Marchons ! Marchons !" is case the stereotype wasn't obvious enough? If Oriental Adventure is insensitive to real-world people, Eberron is as well. And it was not published 40 years ago.

Rules-only supplement is the safe way to go

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fair enough. However, as has been mentioned previously, there has been no intense complaint about treatment of western cultures. For now, that seems to be fair game.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There's been alot of things shunned and boycotted due to the morality of the time. Does anyone here think those old time boycotts were right, fair and just? I get the other side used those methods a while ago but does that mean they are right? I actually think Social Media coupled with those methods are one of the biggest problems now. Imagine how different those previous boycotts would have been if they had Social Media at the time.

That's not to say we shouldn't consider the merits of the grievances. But I think we can and should consider both the grievances and the methods. Perhaps here isn't really the place to discuss the methods though?

I think boycotting is a tool, nothing more, nothing less. And like any tool, it can be used for good or evil purposes.

Don't blame the tool, blame the people using it. Or, more accurately, judge the reasons WHY a tool is being used.

Part of why various forms of boycotting are being used now is because society has been dismissive of the issues being complained about. Things have been swept under various and assorted rugs, and little of substance has been done to remedy the situations in question.

Part of the reason WHY real solutions have been ignored is because not enough people have seen the magnitude of whatever the complaint is about. And no company, institution or government is going to invest millions in changing how things are done if they believe the problem is small and fringey.

Social media makes it much easier for people to find out about and join causes that matter to them, and thus, take action. When the company, institution or government realizes they’re looking at an iceberg and not an ice cube, they can make more appropriate responses.

Of course, there’s no guarantee that the cause is just, nor that the response will be anywhere on the spectrum of desirable. But that’s life.

 

[pemerton]

Depends on what perspective it is written from. Victory clouds history. Even defeat clouds history.
Profound impacts of this are not even taught. Or written about. Actively omitted and denied it is.

I'm not sure what you are referring to with the word this.

I was asking whether Eberron - which I was told picked up on post-WWII Cold War themes - considers the profound impact of the Cold War outside of Europe. I think that is taught and written about, but I'm not sure if Eberron touches on it.

The idea that history is written from perspectives is also something that is taught, and written about. Uphtread I mentioned Hobson's The Eastern Origins of Western Civilisation That's a book that writes about perspectives in history. And it's a book that gets taught (eg I teach it).

 

[pemerton]

"...The mysterious and exotic Orient, land of spices and warlords, has at last opened her gates to the West."
?????

Yes. I posted about that (on the other thread) before you quoted it here. In my view that's the most racist part of the book. The title is next-most.

Kara-Tur was made part of FR, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant Faerun. you can't say "where's France?" and have me point at a specific nation in Faerun. that's definitely not the case in Kara-Tur, you can say "where's Korea?" and someone can point at the exact nation in Kara-Tur that is the Korea analogue.

I can point to the Celtic Britain analogue in FR - it's called Moonshae. I can point to the Egypt analgoue in FR - it's called Mulhorand (sp? - I'm not a FR afficionado). If I knew the setting better I suspect that there would be others I can point to also.

Though it is not impossible, there's a world of difference between a lone, indy developer depicting that fictional version of a culture that they are not a part of, and a multi million dollar toy company hiring someone to do it.

This reinforces my view that the complaint against OA is to a signficant extent a complaint of cultural appropriation.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I agree with you, they will probably play safe in what they publish. However, even that can turn sour. Think of Aundair, a country full of "arrogant people", interested mostly in fashion and wine? A country whose canonical anthem has a line "March on ! March on!" that's copying the Marseillaise line "Marchons ! Marchons !" is case the stereotype wasn't obvious enough? If Oriental Adventure is insensitive to real-world people, Eberron is as well. And it was not published 40 years ago.

Rules-only supplement is the safe way to go

I definitely got that impression of Aundair being based on that country. Was probably going to use Aundair as an excuse to use the words, "Tabarnak de Calisse de Merde!" Even if that's something that only people in my country would ever say.