D&D 5E How should be the future Oriental Adventures.

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
So, here's a tidbit...

Telling a company what you want to see from them does not constitute "censorship." If it did, then everyone saying they want to see a new Dark Sun or Spelljammer is engaging in censorship. Companies get feedback and make choices, that's a normal process.

That you don't happen to agree with the feedback does not make it censorship. That, heavens forbid, the company listens to someone else instead of you, does not make it censorship.
 

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Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
So, here's a tidbit...

Telling a company what you want to see from them does not constitute "censorship." If it did, then everyone saying they want to see a new Dark Sun or Spelljammer is engaging in censorship. Companies get feedback and make choices, that's a normal process.

That you don't happen to agree with the feedback does not make it censorship. That, heavens forbid, the company listens to someone else instead of you, does not make it censorship.

This is not true, and asserting it by taking one case ("I love something, and I'd love to see more of it,") and falsely equating it to another case, ("I don't think anyone should have access to something I don't like,") does you no favors.*

If a private entity regulates the flow of information, that can end in censorship. For example, it is a facile and incorrect argument to say that there is no effect from the (private and voluntary) ratings given out by the MPAA in America. That is a fairly simple, and easy-to-understand, example of private censorship.

If that seems too abstract, you can look at all sorts of private censorship in the past; prior to the MPAA, there was the Hays Code. The fact that this censorship was done privately did not mean that it was not censorship.

In the Comics Industry, there was the infamous CCA (Comics Code Authority); again, private censorship.

There are real conversations to be had; but continuing to make the false equivalence between people advocating for more, and people advocating for past material to be removed from the market, does not enhance the ability to have those conversations.

Yes, people can advocate for private censorship. But that's not the same as, "Hey, I'd like a Spelljammer supplement."


*No one has ever said, "Hey, boycotts are awesome. Do you know why? Because they are EXACTLY like asking for your favorite ice cream flavor. So shut up." That doesn't mean that a person can't boycott, but using that analogy is facile and demeaning in that it is purposefully obliterating the very real difference in what is occurring.
 
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reelo

Hero
Just a quick question (sorry, I didn't read the whole thread yet) but how come "non-Western" cultures need to be portrayed accurately and respectfully, while "vanilla" western fantasy happily mixes (Celtic) druids, late-medieval Knights (Paladins), Renaissance-era tech, pseudo-Vikings, Barbarians, and generally is all over the place in terms of geography and time-period when it comes to Europe, with not the slightest pretense of accuracy?
I'm not begging the question "Shouldn't Europeans also be offended?" I'd just like to point out that if "vanilla" fantasy is already a pastiche, nobody should bat an eyelash at "exotic" fantasy also being a pastiche.
 

Just a quick question (sorry, I didn't read the whole thread yet) but how come "non-Western" cultures need to be portrayed accurately and respectfully, while "vanilla" western fantasy happily mixes (Celtic) druids, late-medieval Knights (Paladins), Renaissance-era tech, pseudo-Vikings, Barbarians, and generally is all over the place in terms of geography and time-period when it comes to Europe, with not the slightest pretense of accuracy?
I'm not begging the question "Shouldn't Europeans also be offended?" I'd just like to point out that if "vanilla" fantasy is already a pastiche, nobody should bat an eyelash at "exotic" fantasy also being a pastiche.
Answered before this was.
Writing of the other things have been from Caucasians. Written by Caucasians.
Other matters have been traditionally written by Caucasians. Writing for other cultures. This is not balanced.
Involvement of cultural consultants would be a start.
 



Cadence

Legend
Supporter
In the Comics Industry, there was the infamous CCA (Comics Code Authority); again, private censorship.

Wasn't one reason for the CCA to head off the implied threat of government mandated censorship? Bringing your congressmen in to legally enforce censorship seems a lot different than lining up a boycott of a product. (I'm not saying the Satanic Panic was a good thing!!! but it feels a lot different than the government threatening to make the game take material out).
 



Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Just a quick question (sorry, I didn't read the whole thread yet) but how come "non-Western" cultures need to be portrayed accurately and respectfully, while "vanilla" western fantasy happily mixes (Celtic) druids, late-medieval Knights (Paladins), Renaissance-era tech, pseudo-Vikings, Barbarians, and generally is all over the place in terms of geography and time-period when it comes to Europe, with not the slightest pretense of accuracy?
I'm not begging the question "Shouldn't Europeans also be offended?" I'd just like to point out that if "vanilla" fantasy is already a pastiche, nobody should bat an eyelash at "exotic" fantasy also being a pastiche.

Seems related to the idea of cultural appropriation, and the way that power dynamics determine the actual effect of actions. I'm sure others have some better links:

And of course there are some folks in every extreme who take things too far, but I think its something to be conscious of.
 

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