MerakSpielman
First Post
kengar said:
I like the Elements of Magic netbook. You can just double the magic point cost of spells and halve the spell lists available to a caster and POOF! Low magic casters.
How should i do low Magic: Some ideas
- Thread starter Albert_Fish
- Start date
I like the Elements of Magic netbook. You can just double the magic point cost of spells and halve the spell lists available to a caster and POOF! Low magic casters.
Shalewind
First Post
Elements of Magic kicks large ammounts of 
. (only $5.00 too!)
I highly recommend it as it has a flexible and easy way to edit the magic systems and power levels.
Baring spells lists or making others lists just one level higher than normal would also allow you to control magic. This is actually what I am going to do with my next campaign.
I thought my problem was the high magic element of D&D that screwed up the parlaying and realizism. After all, the classes are all balanced by magical items right? After seeing this book I see another way to balance things while keeping the magic items down. (But that is a discussion for another thread). Good luck.
. (only $5.00 too!)I highly recommend it as it has a flexible and easy way to edit the magic systems and power levels.
Baring spells lists or making others lists just one level higher than normal would also allow you to control magic. This is actually what I am going to do with my next campaign.
I thought my problem was the high magic element of D&D that screwed up the parlaying and realizism. After all, the classes are all balanced by magical items right? After seeing this book I see another way to balance things while keeping the magic items down. (But that is a discussion for another thread). Good luck.
kengar
First Post
Shalewind said:Elements of Magic kicks large ammounts of
I highly recommend it as it has a flexible and easy way to edit the magic systems and power levels.
Baring spells lists or making others lists just one level higher than normal would also allow you to control magic. This is actually what I am going to do with my next campaign.
I thought my problem was the high magic element of D&D that screwed up the parlaying and realizism. After all, the classes are all balanced by magical items right? After seeing this book I see another way to balance things while keeping the magic items down. (But that is a discussion for another thread). Good luck.
Just picked it up (along with "Wild Spellcraft") at RPGNow actually!
Makes me feel better about the purchase to hear such an endorsement though. 
Albert, I think you are looking at too drastic a change, and such abig difference may make it hard to run for you.
Many of the suggestions here seem to be leading to a world where wizards are talked about, but not really seen, and magic items are as rare as artifacts. Is that really what you are looking for??
I think you may be able to get what you want and stay within the rules, just interpret them a bit differently. Get rid of 'magic shops', make ingrediates for item creation hard to find; not expensive mind you--that is too easy--but harder to get ahold of. The dung of an all black cow is not very expensive, but may be a bit harder to find...
Lowering Mage power isn't really what you need (IMO), you need to control the excess magic items that increase the powerbase of the group. Without a Boccobs book, the wizard is hampared, without bags of holding (and such) the archer needs to carry arrows himself, by making determining item creation ingredients, you can make some items easy to make, and some much harder.
Think of this, if you took most of the magic items away from the party, would they still be such a difficulty?
Also, a large number of items I have them find, are limited use; even those not 'traditionally' so. Like a ring of invisibility with 23 charges left--sometimes they know it is charged, sometimes not. Thus I can still give them toys and trinkets, and not have to worry about them getting too powerful.
.
Many of the suggestions here seem to be leading to a world where wizards are talked about, but not really seen, and magic items are as rare as artifacts. Is that really what you are looking for??
I think you may be able to get what you want and stay within the rules, just interpret them a bit differently. Get rid of 'magic shops', make ingrediates for item creation hard to find; not expensive mind you--that is too easy--but harder to get ahold of. The dung of an all black cow is not very expensive, but may be a bit harder to find...
Lowering Mage power isn't really what you need (IMO), you need to control the excess magic items that increase the powerbase of the group. Without a Boccobs book, the wizard is hampared, without bags of holding (and such) the archer needs to carry arrows himself, by making determining item creation ingredients, you can make some items easy to make, and some much harder.
Think of this, if you took most of the magic items away from the party, would they still be such a difficulty?
Also, a large number of items I have them find, are limited use; even those not 'traditionally' so. Like a ring of invisibility with 23 charges left--sometimes they know it is charged, sometimes not. Thus I can still give them toys and trinkets, and not have to worry about them getting too powerful.
.
kengar
First Post
Coredump said:
Good suggestions CD, but a quick question:
Most of what you're talking about is item-related. What about just plain old spellcasting? A 12th level PHB Sorcerer (for instance) can be high-magic enough without that many magic items or creation feats.
One of the problems I sometimes face is when players use their spells and items to "bull" their way through certain situations. The way this tends to be handled in the rulebooks is to increase the magical power of the opposition. Next thing you know, you're back in a world with half-dragon archdukes and "town" wizards and every city having clerics who can cast "true resurrection" etc. This is the kind of setting I'm trying to avoid.
Marius Delphus
Adventurer
A Few Other Suggestions
Use the "fractional spellcasting" rules published by Sean Reynolds, and halve spell progression: an 11th-level wizard now has the spell load of a 5.5th-level wizard. Add on the "apprentice level" spell progressions from the DMG for the first (.5) level.
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/fractionalspellcasting_adv.html
Outlaw sorcerers altogether, as above (sorcerers don't feel terribly "low magic" to me). Require an "arcane focus" for casting of arcane spells 3rd level or above: the wizard *really needs* that staff, for example, or else he's in serious trouble. Require a divine focus (other than the holy symbol: prayer beads, a sprinkle of holy water, or something) for all divine spells that don't already have one.
Watch ELs carefully; standard D&D encounter balancing factors assume the PCs have access to the standard level of magic.
Don't permit the spending of XP to create magical items; instead, use the "Power Components" variant rule from the DMG. Of course, no game session should devolve into a mere ingredient hunt, but some ingredient hunts can make interesting game sessions.
kengar said:
Use the "fractional spellcasting" rules published by Sean Reynolds, and halve spell progression: an 11th-level wizard now has the spell load of a 5.5th-level wizard. Add on the "apprentice level" spell progressions from the DMG for the first (.5) level.
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/fractionalspellcasting_adv.html
Outlaw sorcerers altogether, as above (sorcerers don't feel terribly "low magic" to me). Require an "arcane focus" for casting of arcane spells 3rd level or above: the wizard *really needs* that staff, for example, or else he's in serious trouble. Require a divine focus (other than the holy symbol: prayer beads, a sprinkle of holy water, or something) for all divine spells that don't already have one.
Watch ELs carefully; standard D&D encounter balancing factors assume the PCs have access to the standard level of magic.
Don't permit the spending of XP to create magical items; instead, use the "Power Components" variant rule from the DMG. Of course, no game session should devolve into a mere ingredient hunt, but some ingredient hunts can make interesting game sessions.
My game uses the grim'n'gritty combat system so i lowered all magic. fewer items etc. for it to work better.
for spellcasters...
Wizards had to take 30minutes/spell level to memorize each spell so was very costly in time and made them far more reticent to cast a fireball if it took the 1.5 hourse to prepare another one.
Sorcerers used a fatigue system. Rolled will save and the spell did either lvl-1 subdual damage or 2x level in subdual damage. (they did know more spells than the standard sorcerer). Failure on the save (a roll of 1) could result in the bad effects from the Chaos magic supplement from mongoose
Priests/Druids. Gods were finicky and had to roll a DC to cast any spell. Failure meant failure of the spell and the temp loss of wisdom (regained at 1 wis/day)(they could cast any spell spontaneously though, no preparation was involved). They could freely cast up to their level in domain spells as well.
Mages (mostly elven casters) used the psionics rules but the powers cost the power cost * level -1 (minimum of 1).
It seemed to work really well. Wizards tended to be the most powerful by a bit if prepared, but preparation took a really long time.
Apoptosis
for spellcasters...
Wizards had to take 30minutes/spell level to memorize each spell so was very costly in time and made them far more reticent to cast a fireball if it took the 1.5 hourse to prepare another one.
Sorcerers used a fatigue system. Rolled will save and the spell did either lvl-1 subdual damage or 2x level in subdual damage. (they did know more spells than the standard sorcerer). Failure on the save (a roll of 1) could result in the bad effects from the Chaos magic supplement from mongoose
Priests/Druids. Gods were finicky and had to roll a DC to cast any spell. Failure meant failure of the spell and the temp loss of wisdom (regained at 1 wis/day)(they could cast any spell spontaneously though, no preparation was involved). They could freely cast up to their level in domain spells as well.
Mages (mostly elven casters) used the psionics rules but the powers cost the power cost * level -1 (minimum of 1).
It seemed to work really well. Wizards tended to be the most powerful by a bit if prepared, but preparation took a really long time.
Apoptosis
Last edited:
NoOneofConsequence
First Post
One suggestion that hasn't been made is to limit spell casting by skills.
Frex:
To cast a spell the wizard/sorc/bard makes a Spellcraft roll DC 10+spell level.
Spell acquisition can be similarly limited: if you want to learn a spell you need ranks in Knowledge [specific magic school] = spell level.
This will make spells tougher to acquire and less reliable to cast - it should give you a great movie feel to your magic (it is capable of earth shattering results but isn't reliable enough for most people to not want to just do it with a sword).
Another possibility is to make all spellcasting item based. An arcane caster can cast any spell they know, as per the current rules, but only from a scroll which they have prepared or a potion which they have made. The item creation rules put the brakes on for you.
Frex:
To cast a spell the wizard/sorc/bard makes a Spellcraft roll DC 10+spell level.
Spell acquisition can be similarly limited: if you want to learn a spell you need ranks in Knowledge [specific magic school] = spell level.
This will make spells tougher to acquire and less reliable to cast - it should give you a great movie feel to your magic (it is capable of earth shattering results but isn't reliable enough for most people to not want to just do it with a sword).
Another possibility is to make all spellcasting item based. An arcane caster can cast any spell they know, as per the current rules, but only from a scroll which they have prepared or a potion which they have made. The item creation rules put the brakes on for you.
da chicken
First Post
Here's how I did low-magic rules. I never played under them long enough to determine if they worked right or not.
First:
Bard, Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Druid are removed.
Rangers lose spellcasting, but may cast animal friendship 1/day at caster level = 1/2 Ranger level beginning at 4th level.
Paladins move bonded mount to 8th level, or lose it altogether.
Rogue gets d8 hit die.
NO prestige classes.
Next, the major spell casting class:
Start with the Adept. Give it 3/4 BAB, simple weapons, light armor, and 4 skill points per level. Move summon familiar to 1st level. Give the class a multiclass restriction a la Monk and Paladin. Make casting Int-based, but still prepared like divine spells. Add 1 to everything on the spells per day chart (they get 1 more spell per day at every level). I called the class 'Mage'. At 5th level, can cast identify 1/day, at 12th-15th (don't remember) can cast legend lore or analyze dweomer 1 day.
Feel free to add spells to this. For example, I added create food and water at 3rd, flame strike at 4th, and cone of cold at 5th. Look to the witch spell list in the DMG and to what you want your PCs to be able to do.
Now:
Add class AC bonuses a-la d20 Star Wars or Wheel of Time. I hadn't pinned down how to divide them, but I was thinking: Ftr and Mnk get high; Pal, Rgr, Brb get medium; 'Mage' and Rog get low. Note that the Monk AC bonus and this new class bonus stack.
Change these feats:
Scribe Scroll: Caster level 5
Brew Potion: Caster level 5
Craft Wonderous Item, Wand, Arms and Armor: Caster level 10
Craft Staff or Rod: Level 12
Craft Ring: level 15
Double or triple the gp costs to craft items (but not the XP cost).
Notes and Options:
* Necromancer (Illusion barred): As an evil NPC only class. This class is EXACTLY as per the PH Wizard, 9th level spells and all. Absolutely the most dangerous opponents.
* Paladin is a more powerful class in this world than normal. They heal very well and are the only class with undead turning.
* Monks are also very powerful, but not as powerful as the Paladin.
* Retain Druids as an NPC only class, but give them restoration, greater restoration, raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection, and miracle. These Druids should be rare, recluse, and NG or TN. Most of them should be Fey creatures.
* Adamantine weapons and armor should be more common than actual magic weapons and armor.
Beyond this it is all about guessing the power level of opponents to throw at the PCs.
First:
Bard, Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, and Druid are removed.
Rangers lose spellcasting, but may cast animal friendship 1/day at caster level = 1/2 Ranger level beginning at 4th level.
Paladins move bonded mount to 8th level, or lose it altogether.
Rogue gets d8 hit die.
NO prestige classes.
Next, the major spell casting class:
Start with the Adept. Give it 3/4 BAB, simple weapons, light armor, and 4 skill points per level. Move summon familiar to 1st level. Give the class a multiclass restriction a la Monk and Paladin. Make casting Int-based, but still prepared like divine spells. Add 1 to everything on the spells per day chart (they get 1 more spell per day at every level). I called the class 'Mage'. At 5th level, can cast identify 1/day, at 12th-15th (don't remember) can cast legend lore or analyze dweomer 1 day.
Feel free to add spells to this. For example, I added create food and water at 3rd, flame strike at 4th, and cone of cold at 5th. Look to the witch spell list in the DMG and to what you want your PCs to be able to do.
Now:
Add class AC bonuses a-la d20 Star Wars or Wheel of Time. I hadn't pinned down how to divide them, but I was thinking: Ftr and Mnk get high; Pal, Rgr, Brb get medium; 'Mage' and Rog get low. Note that the Monk AC bonus and this new class bonus stack.
Change these feats:
Scribe Scroll: Caster level 5
Brew Potion: Caster level 5
Craft Wonderous Item, Wand, Arms and Armor: Caster level 10
Craft Staff or Rod: Level 12
Craft Ring: level 15
Double or triple the gp costs to craft items (but not the XP cost).
Notes and Options:
* Necromancer (Illusion barred): As an evil NPC only class. This class is EXACTLY as per the PH Wizard, 9th level spells and all. Absolutely the most dangerous opponents.
* Paladin is a more powerful class in this world than normal. They heal very well and are the only class with undead turning.
* Monks are also very powerful, but not as powerful as the Paladin.
* Retain Druids as an NPC only class, but give them restoration, greater restoration, raise dead, resurrection, true resurrection, and miracle. These Druids should be rare, recluse, and NG or TN. Most of them should be Fey creatures.
* Adamantine weapons and armor should be more common than actual magic weapons and armor.
Beyond this it is all about guessing the power level of opponents to throw at the PCs.
IME, both playing and listening to others, the real problems stem from a proliferation of items, and the ease of getting/making exactly the item you want.
Sorcerer's are naturally limited by the number of 'known' spells. Even at 12th level, they only have a selection of 6 spells above 3rd level. Granted they can be cast very often, but they are limited/specialized. If he is able to buy items to make him more well-rounded, he becomes much more powerful.
Now, in a low-magic campaign, like Grim-n-Gritty, that would still be too powerful; but I got the impression that the original poster just didn't want way high magic.
Also, I have found that parties where the mages are overpowering often are allowed to rest as needed, so they can go to an encounter, blow as many spells as they like, and then go back and rest; sort of like most computer games.
If there are repurcussions to leaving, they will be more likely to keep going, if they must keep going, they are more likely to hoard their spells till *really* needed, thus not as overpowering.
(Repurcussions: PC's are attacking a deserted temple to get an ancient relic. The attack, and leave to rest.
The Bad Guys now know they are being attacked, so they can better defend. They can set up an ambush, they can track the heroes to their camp. Heck, they could just take the relic and leave; try and hide somewhere else. Remember, one little attack in the middle of the night, and no memorizing for the next day...)
Remember, not bigger baddies, smarter baddies. It is a blast having a 10-12th level party get sent packing by a bunch of kobolds.
.
