D&D 5E How should I improve stoneskin?

[NotAYakk]

Add more sources of resistance.

In my case, people wielding shields can sacrifice them to get resistance against any non-psychic source of damage. (If the shield is magical, it just disables the shield until the next short rest. If you are attuned to the shield you can do this proficiency bonus times before the shield is disabled. You must be physically wielding the shield for this to work).

The Shield spell also grants resistance if the attack hits, counts as a shield (so doesn't stack AC with one), and lasts for 1 attack per level of the spell slot used.

As you add more ways to get resistance to attacks, abilities that grant resistance aren't as good.

Now you can remove the Stoneskin consumed materials cost. And at higher level (slots) you can make it multi-target.

 

[Quartz]

Now, the current version resistance to nonmagical P/B/S damage AND concentration AND a costly material component - that's IS too restrictive.

Why? Stoneskin significantly ameliorates a spellcaster's primary weakness: relatively few HP. That should carry a heavy cost. And I urge you to think about how it can be abused. Consider, for instance, a Fighter with Heavy Armour Mastery using the standard spell (perhaps via an item), then consider the proposed variations.

 

[Mort]

Why? Stoneskin significantly ameliorates a spellcaster's primary weakness: relatively few HP. That should carry a heavy cost. And I urge you to think about how it can be abused. Consider, for instance, a Fighter with Heavy Armour Mastery using the standard spell (perhaps via an item), then consider the proposed variations.

By 7th level many opponents bypass non-magical resistance (It's why Heavy Armor Master is amazing early, but doesn't scale well at mid-later levels).

With that AND concentration AND a costly component (especially in campaigns where a costly component actually means something) it's a really tough sell as 1 of very few 4th level spells per day. I'm starting to see a lot more 7+ play lately and this spell (as is) doesn't seem to get any play at all.

 

[Quickleaf]

Stoneskin has always felt underwhelming to me. At the same time, I can understand why they went with the version in the PHB: it is devilishly hard to balance it well.

I think what really makes it feel underwhelming is that it both requires concentration and costs gold. But just removing one or the other might make it a little bit too good.

It's a spell that never loses effectiveness (given that magical bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage is a generally rare phenomenon). If you take off both concentration and cost, it would become a dominant, almost assumed to be in play, go-to spell at just about all levels.

If you take off just concentration, it will get used more from the start, but somewhat sparingly still because of the cost. Once you get high enough level that the cost is irrelevant, it will become dominant.

If you take off just cost, it is a little too good at lower levels, but becomes weaker at higher levels when you have better things to do with your concentration--probably keeping it subpar.

I'm thinking that perhaps there is some way to address this with the "at higher levels" mechanic. I also think it could start working against magic damage in a higher slot, so that when you are up against such foes you can still use the spell.

What are your ideas of how to adjust the variables to keep it a balanced defensive option throughout the game (if possible) without it becoming a dominant, assumed go-to option?

I love it when combat-oriented spells can have purposes outside of combat.

For example, a damage threshold of 5 or 10 (like the DMG suggests for several stone structures) could allow a character to ward off lots of environmental damage. I'm sure you could look at some of the maths online to find what the right "set point" for an escalating damage threshold would be; I think it was Paul (?) at Blog of Holding who did monster stats on an index card & reverse engineered average damage...

Making you "heavy as a 600-lb statue" would allow things like sinking underwater rapidly.

Heck, you might even gain the False Appearance (statue of yourself) trait while motionless.

 

[Quartz]

it's a really tough sell as 1 of very few 4th level spells per day.

And how about later on, when the PC has more 4th level spells? How about when the PC is casting from a scroll? Perhaps one they created? Think about how the spell can be abused.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Stone skin is an old favorite of mine from 2e that used to just negate a number of attacks (I used to always say 'pink thats one off my stone skin') where it was either half or a third caster level +1d4... and it lasted most of or all day.

in 3e onward (WotC era) it was less and less useful. I can't imagine modern stone skin seeing play if it was 2nd level. However any fix I put on it is always either not enough or too much.

 

[Mort]

And how about later on, when the PC has more 4th level spells?

Even at 3 (which the most you'll get) it's still pretty low on the list (IMO).

How about when the PC is casting from a scroll? Perhaps one they created?

In its current form? You're spending serious coin for a scroll that, in it's current incarnation, is not worth it (again IMO). IMO, Most of the time, you're better off with greater invisibility - much shorter duration but much better effect.

Think about how the spell can be abused.

In it's current incarnation? It basically can't (I'm sure someone, somewhere figured out a way to make it OP - I've never seen it). But, I'm not designing the game - I'm thinking of what would work for my table. And, for my table, in its current incarnation - the spell is lackluster.

 

[Quartz]

In it's current incarnation? It basically can't (I'm sure someone, somewhere figured out a way to make it OP -

I listed one possible abuse upthread.

I'm thinking of what would work for my table. And, for my table, in its current incarnation - the spell is lackluster.

Fair enough.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd make it similar to the 2e version, give it a number of hits before it fades and remove concentration. Higher spell slots allow it to absorb more hits. Leave the duration at 1 hour which should still limit its usefulness to a single fight.

Just remembered (and checked to confirm) that the 2e version doesn't care if it is a hit or not, nor whether the attack is magical or physical. So having 5 charges and being attacked by something with 3 attacks will strip away 3 charges regardless of the attack roll.

The 2e spell does also bring up magic missile, but I think now that it's been specified as force damage, that it would just have normal effect rather than stripping away stoneskin charges, keep stoneskin as defence against physical B/P/S damage.

Actually, since the 2e version completely negates physical attacks, you could probably leave it with concentration so that other damage types have a chance if disabling it.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Thanks for all the additional analysis and sample revisions!

In thinking about it more, I have some possibilities. The consumable component isn't really a balance factor at higher levels when you can use as much as you need. But it remains a psychological factor (at least in my group that is loathe to regularly use consumable resources). I'm thinking of making use of the "at higher levels" mechanism to play with the component, concentration, and magic damage, while changing the way the spell works as little as possible. Here is what I'm currently considering.

At 4th level it functions exactly as normal.

At 5th+ level, the component is not consumed unless you choose.

At 6th+ level, if the component is consumed it does not require concentration.

At 7th+ level it also works against magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing.

Here's what I think it should do in play.

It retains the customary component for thematic reasons.

The spell mostly becomes a 5th level spell now, at which point it is a strong but (hopefully) not overpowered spell.

It will remain a strong spell at 6th level due to the lack of concentration. Players with a normal aversion to consumable costs who have been using the 5th level version (without consuming the component) will be more likely to upcast it and use the component in situations where it is clearly an optimal choice, than they would have been to use the spell at all if not for the non-consumable 5th level option.

The 7th+ level is an uncommon situation, but when it comes up the spell is still strong.

I'm okay with it being strong, since I like seeing classic spells get use, as long as it doesn't dominate play and become the automatic choice, which is part of what I'm unsure about here.

How do you think the balance is on these proposed changes? Will it have the effects I'm anticipating, or some other effects?