D&D 5E (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[Yaarel]

When every spell description is calibrated and balanced, and tightly appropriate for its assigned spell slot, then everything in the game will be balanced.

 

[mellored]

There are so many flavors a fullcaster Swordmage can do.

What spells would they cast?

Include augmented Unarmed Strikes of various flavors as well as weapons.

Besides flavor, what would an unarmed sword mage do differently than one with a sword?

 

[Yaarel]

What spells would they cast?

An elemental theme Swordmage might choose spells like Fireball but instead cast it as a 20-foot aura.

The Swordmage should generally lack access to ranged spells, and need to get up close and personal to cast. But teleporting or flying to an intended target is fine.

Besides flavor, what would an unarmed sword mage do differently than one with a sword?

There isnt too much difference between a telekinetic wielding a longsword to deal force damage versus striking to deal force damage. But casting spells while grappling can be interesting.

 

[Yaarel]

I deeply hope 2024 combs thru all of the spells for very tight balance.

Generally, currently:


Slots 1 and 2 include a variety of powerful spells. So in practice, there is a smooth scaling of power from slots 1 to 3. Fireball is better to avoid "special" treatment, for the sake of all spells in the same slot having a clearer amount of expected power compared to each other.

Slot 4 is slightly less impressive, but slot 5 gets a boost in power to recontinue the smooth scaling since slot 1.

Generally, slots 1 thru 5, are well understood. The spells still need calibrating to ensure each spell is performing balancedly and desirbably for its slot. But overall, these slots are solid.


However, slots 6, 7, and 8, are increasingly disappointing and actually yuck. Except, a few spells are ok but require foreknowledge, planning, and setup in advance, thus are less usable for the spontaneous spell slots. Exceptionally, Forcecage is actually broken. But slots 7 and 8 are truly horrible.

Then slot 9 includes spells that are runaway throwaway broken. Albeit, there are also dreck spells that pollute the slot 9 with worthless spells like Storm of Vengeance.

Wish is too powerful for a slot 9 spell, and is an example of what not to do. Probably Wish should be an "Epic tier spell", and only obtainable before then by using the level 19 Feat to obtain it, thus casting it "Innately" once per day. Every full caster can qualify for the Wish feat, whether by psionically willing the minds intention into existence, or divinely accomplishing a miracle, or arcanely reconstructing reality, or primally animating nature. Meanwhile, the other level 19 feats need to be worth the same amount of power and desirability as the Wish spell.

The slots 6, 7, 8, and 9 are in desperate need of designer comprehension and radical regulation. The game engine needs to completely understand how much power these high tier slots must supply. Every spell in a same high tier slot must be equally desirable, while scaling smoothly from the slot below it to the slot above it while advancing.


When slots 6 thru 9 are finally working properly, there will be a clear understanding of how "mythic" the Fighter class needs to be at the higher tiers.

Then there will be enduring game engine balance, even at the highest tiers.

 

[cbwjm]

For the half-caster concept, I would rather a Paladin subclass swap its spell list for the Wizard spell list, similar to the way the Divine Sorcerer swaps its spell list.

Dont ruin the Swordmage class.

It needs to be a full caster.

That's just a disagreement over what it should be, I think it should be a half-caster, you a full-caster. I don't think it needs access to a full 9 spell levels.

I'd rather not just swap a spell list on the paladin, it has too much other baggage in its class features.

 

[mellored]

An elemental theme Swordmage might choose spells like Fireball but instead cast it as a 20-foot aura.

Elemental Burst, sure.

The Swordmage should generally lack access to ranged spells,

Hmm...
it is hard to make a subclass that restricts the base class features.

There isnt too much difference between a telekinetic wielding a longsword to deal force damage versus striking to deal force damage.

Agreed.

Casting spells while grappling can be interesting.

Teleport with a grappled target could be good.

 

[Yaarel]

Hmm...
it is hard to make a subclass that restricts the base class features.

It might be easy in this case, where the Swordmage is the base class.

The range itself is the thematic.

So any spell that has a range becomes melee range instead, or burst with the Swordmage as the point of origin. The Swordmage oneself is of course immune, but nearby teammates would be affected normally. Friendly fire spells still require caution. But higher level features might sculpt the auras and bursts. Probably, a radius of 30 feet is the maximum distance away, if choosing certain spells whose radius blasts exceed it.

 

[Yaarel]

I'd rather not just swap a spell list on the paladin, it has too much other baggage in its class features.

The arcane Paladin subclass seems perfect for the Wizard Knight part-caster.

The Oath of the Scholar, to explore the unknown and discover truth.

To reflavor the Smite according to the chosen arcane theme and damage type works great.

Pick the spells from the Wizard list.


Out of curiosity, which "Paladin baggage" do you find too much? Would a Ranger with a Wizard spell list work instead?

 

[mellored]

It might be easy in this case, where the Swordmage is the base class.

The range itself is the thematic.

So any spell that has a range becomes melee range instead, or burst with the Swordmage as the point of origin. The Swordmage oneself is of course immune, but nearby teammates would be affected normally. Friendly fire spells still require caution. But higher level features might sculpt the auras and bursts. Probably, a radius of 30 feet is the maximum distance away, if choosing certain spells whose radius blasts exceed it.

So what level 9 spell do you think Swordmage's need?

And what's the point of having magic missile, fireball, lightning bolt, and cone of cold if they are all melee?

Because if your doing a new class, and have to modify every spell, why not make something new instead?

Like...
When you make a melee attack, you gain a mana point up to your level. These points last until the end of combat.
You can then spend mana points on the following effects.

Add Elemental Damage for 1 point.
Teleport for 1 point per 10'.
Elemental Burst: 2 points, all creature within 10' make a reflex save...
Greater Elemental Burst: 3 points, all creature within 10' make a reflex save...

Ect...

 

[cbwjm]

The arcane Paladin subclass seems perfect for the Wizard Knight part-caster.

The Oath of the Scholar, to explore the unknown and discover truth.

To reflavor the Smite according to the chosen arcane theme and damage type works great.

Pick the spells from the Wizard list.


Out of curiosity, which "Paladin baggage" do you find too much? Would a Ranger with a Wizard spell list work instead?

Anything to do with healing (lay on hands, cure wounds, radiation), the oath, heavy armour (for base class), the fact that you only get that arcane flavour at 3rd level, also the fact that it's only a single subclass rather than many subclasses that would alter a base swordmage class. Detect good and evil doesn't really fit. While it can be done with home-brew, these things wouldn't be removed from a base class if an actual official arcane paladin oath was created.

Better to create a dedicated class that can be altered by subclass to fit various arcane warrior themes.

Edit: The above was going off memory, now that I've had another look at the paladin I realise I forgot channel divinity and divine health, aura of protection I could maybe see as the 4e class's aegis, but if you wanted to keep that in then I think it would be better to design something specific for the class or for a subclass based around it.