D&D (2024) How should the Swordmage be implemented in 1DnD?

[FrogReaver]

I don’t get the need for full caster swordmage - unless power is the primary concern.

I would probably do something like half caster with unique concentration spells to enhance his combat. Plenty of room to add in a cool class mechanic on top of this as well.

 

[Yaarel]

So what level 9 spell do you think Swordmage's need?

And what's the point of having magic missile, fireball, lightning bolt, and cone of cold if they are all melee?

Because if your doing a new class, and have to modify every spell, why not make something new instead?

Like...
When you make a melee attack, you gain a mana point up to your level. These points last until the end of combat.
You can then spend mana points on the following effects.

Add Elemental Damage for 1 point.
Teleport for 1 point per 10'.
Elemental Burst: 2 points, all creature within 10' make a reflex save...
Greater Elemental Burst: 3 points, all creature within 10' make a reflex save...

Ect...

At level 17, the Swordmage can pick any slot 9 spell. For example.

• Meteor Swarm (but max 30 ft radius with Swordmage as point of origin)
• Prismatic Wall (but upto 15 radius sphere, ie 30 diameter sphere, or upto 30x30 wall 30 feet away)
• Foresight

• Invulnerability
• True Polymorph (but "melee range", ie touch or reachable by weapon)
• Shapechange

• Power Word Heal
• Mass Heal (but max 30 ft radius)

There is only one slot 9 per long rest, so whichever spell the player picks is fine, as long as the spells themselves are balanced.


Astral Projection is fine, except any spell that requires a "1 hour" casting time should be a "ritual" − and not a "spell".

Rituals need to disconnect from spells and become a separate design space. Rituals can require anything (level prereq, use of a bonus action, quiet meditation for 8 hours, astronomical timing, special rare ingredient, costly item, strange behavior, or even have no requirement, whatever makes sense for the thematic and power of the ritual). Ideally each ritual lists a specific skill check to determine its success or failure, or crit or fumble! Any class including a Fighter can attempt to perform a ritual, by means of the skill check. Astral Projection is an example of a magical effect that makes more sense as a ritual. A caster has the option of using a spell slot instead of a skill check in order to guarantee success. But most casters will save their slots for combat, and risk skill checks for rituals anyway. Rituals are the kind of magic that happen in reallife fairy tales and in contemporary popculture magic.

Wish should be a feat, including for the Wizard.

 

[Yaarel]

Anything to do with healing (lay on hands, cure wounds, radiation), the oath, heavy armour (for base class), the fact that you only get that arcane flavour at 3rd level, also the fact that it's only a single subclass rather than many subclasses that would alter a base swordmage class. Detect good and evil doesn't really fit. While it can be done with home-brew, these things wouldn't be removed from a base class if an actual official arcane paladin oath was created.

Better to create a dedicated class that can be altered by subclass to fit various arcane warrior themes.

I realize the arcane part-caster Paladin subclass is a taste thing. I look at it the following way.

Healing is ok for arcane. (Actually the best healing spell in the game is the Wish spell, which it shouldnt be! It shouldnt be better than a slot 9 healing spell! But it is.) 3e Bards and 5e Artificers are arcane healers. The Paladin healing is minimal anyway, so it doesnt really matter.

The Oath flavor is perfect. Most arcane spell caster concepts are "serious business" anyway. Oath of Scholar is fine. Or some other Oath if going for a less scholarly version of arcane.

A heavy armor partcaster is kinda cool. It somewhat reminds me of the popculture "Mordred" flavor from the King Arthur romances.

Every magic character concept needs magic at level 1. This is true for the Eldritch Knight too, which should have the option of gaining magic via a level 1 Fighting Style. But notice, the UA Paladin starts spellcasting out of the gate at level 1: two slot 1 spells per long rest. There are no cantrips, but a level 2 Fighting Style should provide at least one cantrip in addition to an other magical combat feature, if the player feels the need.

Detect Good/Evil is a misnomer anyway. The spell should be called "Detect Planar" and is perfect for various arcane concepts, such as Fey, Elemental, and Undead Shadow.

The Paladin seems perfect as-is for an arcane partial caster with a bit more magical competence than an Eldritch Knight.

 

[Yaarel]

I don’t get the need for full caster swordmage - unless power is the primary concern.

I would probably do something like half caster with unique concentration spells to enhance his combat. Plenty of room to add in a cool class mechanic on top of this as well.

All the half-casters suck at the highest tiers, being neither a competent caster nor a heavy hitter.

The 2014 Paladin was an exception via a char op exploitation. But the UA Paladin reined in this exploit.

I want a combat mage who wields slot 9 spells!

I am sick of dabbling Fighters (including Ranger and now Paladin), sorely disappointed with Artificer, and fed up with half-asked magic.

 

[cbwjm]

The Paladin seems perfect as-is for an arcane partial caster with a bit more magical competence than an Eldritch Knight.

Again, that's a difference of opinion. I think we'll have to do the ol' "agree to disagree" bit here, I don't think I'll ever see the paladin as a good class for an arcane swordmage subclass, it just has too many features that don't gel with the concept. I could see a paladin that swears an oath to a god of magic, but that's still a paladin with a little arcane magic flavour, it isn't what I'd see as an arcane half-caster warrior/wizard class.

 

[overgeeked]

So in 1DnD, how should the concept of a swordmage/magus class be handled? Continue to split it among subclasses, or give it a dedicated class?

Take the warlock. Swap CHA to INT. And you’re basically done.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I've never understood the draw of full caster swordmage, and it's often the reason swordmager haters point towards why DnD shouldn't have the class.

I believe half caster would work best for it as a dedicated class. Though I also believe it could be done as a pure martial, using a pool of power points to fuel its strikes like an arcane archer.

 

[Corinnguard]

All the half-casters suck at the highest tiers, being neither a competent caster nor a heavy hitter.

The 2014 Paladin was an exception via a char op exploitation. But the UA Paladin reined in this exploit.

I want a combat mage who wields slot 9 spells!

I am sick of dabbling Fighters (including Ranger and now Paladin), sorely disappointed with Artificer, and fed up with half-asked magic.

Have you ever played a half-caster before? A half caster in D&D is someone who is trying to learn the ways of the martial and the caster at practically the same time. They are the ones who practice their swordsmanship during the daytime and study a book of magic at night. They are never going to be competent as a Fighter or as a Wizard (or Cleric). They are competent in their very own special way.

If you want to play a combat mage who wields 9 levels of spell slots, then you should stick with the Bladesinger. I somehow doubt WoTC will give you what you want. An alternative would be to homebrew what you are looking for, and let the rest of us playtest it for you.

 

[Shardstone]

Swordplay doesn't have to be balanced with spellcasting because swordplay in 5th edition is largely underpowered compared to spell casting.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Swordplay doesn't have to be balanced with spellcasting because swordplay in 5th edition is largely underpowered compared to spell casting.

ehhhh, just because it isn't currently balanced doesn't mean that it shouldn't at least be a goal to try equalise the two some more.