How should the Psion/Mystic be implemented in 1DnD?

[Frozen_Heart]

Ok do I thought I might do a new one of these threads every few days, in order to see how people want certain class/subclass concepts handled in the new system. I'm focusing on the most suggested and talked about classes first, and maybe I'll move onto some more obscure ones later.

So first, lets start with the psion/mystic. This one is notable for getting its own class unearthed arcana in 5e, but never making it through to release. With the, aberrant mind, psi-warrior, and soulknife taking up aspects of the concept in the form of subclasses instead.

So in 1DnD, how should this character concept, and by extension the entire concept of psionics at all be handled? Should it be identical to 5e with the three subclasses, or maybe different subclasses? Should it get its own class, and if so how should that class be handled? Should the psi-die mechanic return? Or should it be a spellcaster? If so spell slots or will points, and how will it work with only the arcane, primal, or divine lists to pick from?

Or would you rather the concept of psionics and every class/subclass linked to it wasn't a thing in DnD at all?

Other Threads:

Artificer - How should the Artificer be implemented in 1DnD?
Summoner/Pet Class - https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-should-the-summoner-pet-class-be-implemented-in-1dnd.697591/
Warlord - How should the Warlord be implemented in 1DnD?

 

[Kobold Avenger]

So here's what I want:

-Psionics to use spells just like other classes, now it doesn't have to be with spell slots like most classes, but they should be spells simple enough. Those spells should be a mixture of existing spells like Charm Person since there's no use in re-inventing the wheel, and some new spells like Psychic Crush.
-There's a Psionic spell list, I've been saying that there should be a 4th general spell list for a while.
-There's should be a base Psion class.
-There should be psionic subclasses for other classes too
-Now there was a concept for Psions which never even made it to a UA used "super-cantrips" that could be enhanced by spending spell slots, they should try something like that.

 

[Clint_L]

Caveat that I hate psionics so it is hard for me to set that prejudice aside, but I recognize that the game is for everyone, so:

Like artificers, they'll come in through a supplement of some kind - Planescape would seem like an obvious fit, and I think there should be three sub-classes. I don't think they should be spell-slot based, or they may as well just be a sorcerer sub-class or something. Primary attributes would be intelligence and charisma.

Actually, if they were brought in with Planescape, they would have the distinction of being the first OneD&D class, though artificers are arguable.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Caveat that I hate psionics so it is hard for me to set that prejudice aside, but I recognize that the game is for everyone, so:

Like artificers, they'll come in through a supplement of some kind - Planescape would seem like an obvious fit, and I think there should be three sub-classes. I don't think they should be spell-slot based, or they may as well just be a sorcerer sub-class or something. Primary attributes would be intelligence and charisma.

Actually, if they were brought in with Planescape, they would have the distinction of being the first OneD&D class, though artificers are arguable.

Dark Sun seems like the most obvious fit, but WotC announced that they're no longer covering that setting.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

By far, IMO, the best version they released was the Mystic (link goes to the UA pdf).

It was not perfect, and like a lot of UA material needed some finetuning. But it was an excellent attempt at making a psionics class for people that like psionics.

What they did with subclasses? That isn't for people that like psionics.

I know it's not going to happen based on what we've seen, but an official Mystic class, similar to what they did in that UA release, as an expansion or optional class would be what I would want.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

-Now there was a concept for Psions which never even made it to a UA used "super-cantrips" that could be enhanced by spending spell slots, they should try something like that.

I was crestfallen that take was never given a fair shake in a UA. That threaded the needle for me perfectly.

 

[Gorck]

Dare I dream that they just convert the 3.5e Expanded Psionics Handbook to 5e? Otherwise, I'd prefer to see a new Psion class that is INT-based, rather than a subclass. I'm not a fan of the CHA-based Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.

Until then, I'll have to tweak my Psionic Wizard subclass when 1DD finally gets released. Although, I haven't finished play testing it yet to know whether it's worth converting.

Also, Forgotten Realms has a history with Psions - there's a whole house in Menzoberranzan that were Psions.

 

[Blue]

Well, unfortunately there seems to continue to be the "let's make this a spell" trend in OneD&D, so if OneD&D was to implement a full-psionic class I'd expect to see it look like a full caster, or perhaps a Warlock. And hybrid classes will continue to look like hybrid classes, though it's possible we could get half-casters, or third-caster subclasses, this time around.

I don't think they will rock the boat to come up with a new large mechanic until 6e. The 50th Anniversary Edition seems to be shaping up just to be tweaks like 3.5 core books were on 3.0 core books. Perhaps after it has been out for a few years they would shake it up with a new mechanic like Bo9S did for 3.5, but not in core.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Well, unfortunately there seems to continue to be the "let's make this a spell" trend in OneD&D, so if OneD&D was to implement a full-psionic class I'd expect to see it look like a full caster, or perhaps a Warlock. And hybrid classes will continue to look like hybrid classes, though it's possible we could get half-casters, or third-caster subclasses, this time around.

I don't think they will rock the boat to come up with a new large mechanic until 6e. The 50th Anniversary Edition seems to be shaping up just to be tweaks like 3.5 core books were on 3.0 core books. Perhaps after it has been out for a few years they would shake it up with a new mechanic like Bo9S did for 3.5, but not in core.

In 5e I'd have said make it a caster, use spell point casting as its default, and design its spell list to have all the spells which suit it.

However as 1dnd has set things out as three standard spell lists (arcane, divine, primal), that will no longer work. You can't just slap a wizard spell list onto a psion.

So it has to be a unique mechanic for it to work for me (or add a 4th spell power source - psionics).

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

OK... Hear me out... First, is my hot take, I don't believe Psionics would need to exist in the story of D&D except that it has a history and some people love the concept. It exists because there are people who prefer it over the Alt-Vancian style of magic. It is essentially an entire alternate magic system that wants to replicate the D&D Alt-Vancian magic system, but in a way that feels different for those who like that kind of magic system. Why have 2 versions of Charm Person? We don't want to be the same as Charm Person, so we rename it something psuedoscientifically cool, tweak it, and say it is different. Do psionics lovers really want D&D magic spells to be reskinned and renamed or do they really want a system that does most everything Magic does, but different? Does shoehorning it into the existing Alt-Vancian magic system really give psionics lovers what they want? Which I believe at its core is a robust power point system with Psionic Combat Modes, just more balanced than the old days.

It deserves to exist in a system that centers around it, and D&D Alt-Vancian is not that system, no matter how many iterations it has been recreated (and all of them have been different.) Ideally, it is not core and deserves an entire sourcebook dedicated to how it fits into a universe, from the using power points, to imbued Items, to the Monsters that use it.

That said, there is a market for it, and if done well, people will buy it. I can see a "spell-point Sorcerer" chassis, sure. That is an obvious option, even if you allow different ability scores for power use. Use can use a variant of Metamagic to alter it on the fly. It really is the best way, in my opinion.

But I like theorycrafting, so here is an alternate idea:

1. A spellpoint Psion that uses a variant of the Warlock chassis which is a half-caster, with "Talent" options that take the place of "Invocations."
2. They can choose their mental ability score, which determines their Discipline subclass which changes the Psion's complete tone. We don't want it to rely on MAD.
3. Have a Talent (spell) list for early levels, and Talents can unlock more powerful Powers.
4. Talents can unlock options that make melee or ranged better. That way the Mystic can opt into the paths they want to take.
5. Perhaps rather than Tome, Blade, or Chain, they choose Psicrystal (caster buff), Mindblade (weapon buff), or Astral Construct (pet buff)

.... actually... I kinda like that. Maybe I need to rethink my position after all.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

First, is my hot take

Hotter take:

Wizard, with all the blandness of its subclasses and its lack of actual class features and its monopoly on the INT stat needs to go and make place for a Psion class with its specialty of mind-bending magic and weird space powers.

Give the mastery of magic to the ones supposed to be magic incarnate: Sorcerers. Give book/tome keeping to the bards or clerics who actually gather the old lore of their college or religion.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Hotter take:

Wizard, with all the blandness of its subclasses and its lack of actual class features and its monopoly on the INT stat needs to go and make place for a Psion class with its specialty of mind-bending magic and weird space powers.

Give the mastery of magic to the ones supposed to be magic incarnate: Sorcerers. Give book/tome keeping to the bards or clerics who actually gather the old lore of their college or religion.

That's a bold move, Cotton!

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

That's a bold move, Cotton!

To be honest, my paycheck doesn't depend on the satisfaction of a multifaceted player-base, so nothing to lose by being bold!

 

[Incenjucar]

The 4E method of having a few basic powers which could be boosted or modified with a limited pool of energy was pretty great. I also especially liked how the 2E psionicist still relied a bit more on physicality, and wasn't just a variation on the wizard. Let them overdo it and have to fall back on a shortsword once in a while.

 

[TwoSix]

Make the class a mostly resource-free non-caster, like a rogue.

Each subclass has its own specific schtick (telekinesis, telepathy, etc.) that it can do pretty much at will. It doesn't do persistent or lingering effects without locking out the ability that caused it. (If a telepath does a dominate effect, it can only do that on one target, for example.)

It's the complete of a versatile wizard, it does one thing and does it very well.

 

[Larrin]

I liked how the 3.5 psion had subclasses: telepath, seer, nomad, kineticist, shaper that highlighted something that was "psionicky" about them and that they could sort of focus on for demonstrating how they were a psion and not just a messed up wizard. I think UA was sort of on this track, but made it a little too "a la carte" and overpowered to boot (I've seen three UA psionicist in play, and the only one that wasn't needlessly dominating was intentionally not trying to do so). Something that can capture that feeling would really be what I want.

 

[NaturalZero]

Hotter take:

Wizard, with all the blandness of its subclasses and its lack of actual class features and its monopoly on the INT stat needs to go and make place for a Psion class with its specialty of mind-bending magic and weird space powers.

I second this because I think the Wizard is weighed down by 40+ years of baggage. It just has too much in one class and is a giant pile of mushy tofu as a concept because of it. Strip out the illusion stuff and give it to the bard. Strip out the telekinesis and mental spells and make them psion powers. Make strong concepts like summoner, necromancer, and abjurer wizard subclasses with robust features that other subclass and full classes can't just replicated by accessing the same old common vanilla spell list.

 

[cbwjm]

I wouldn't mind seeing another shot at the UA mystic, I quite liked the way it had discipline's with unique effects that the mystic gained access to as they levelled up. Perhaps they shouldn't try to make the mystic as wide as they tried and instead assign some of the concepts to subclasses of other classes.

 

[Vael]

As a first draft for 5e Psionics, I thought the UA Mystic was pretty good. I like bundling related powers into disciplines, I like power points.

The idea of having more cantrip style powers that can be augmented by expending points/spell slots does intrigue me.

 

[Blue]

In 5e I'd have said make it a caster, use spell point casting as its default, and design its spell list to have all the spells which suit it.

However as 1dnd has set things out as three standard spell lists (arcane, divine, primal), that will no longer work. You can't just slap a wizard spell list onto a psion.

So it has to be a unique mechanic for it to work for me (or add a 4th spell power source - psionics).

It could easily be just a psion spell list added when they introduce the class - it's never going to be core in OneD&D. Or "the arcane list but only X and Y type spells" like the bard.

You honestly see them adding in a new mechanic to OneD&D? Which they have promised to be backward compatible? Which the UAs have a section saying "if anything is of a differnet power level then it is in 5e we'll change it". Give me any support for what they have said or published for that besides wish fulfillment.