D&D General How the heck do you fight a medieval war in winter?

[Horwath]

So if I make a solid 40ft cube of cave ceiling turn into mud it falls and deals 4d8 damage to any creature under it.

OR I could turn it into a 240ft long, 40ft wide, line of mud falling from the ceiling that deals 4d8 damage to any creature under it? 'Cause the spell only gives a damage value, it doesn't include rules for how to spread out that damage over an artificially inflated area.

sure, why not, maybe with added how much "depth" you need to have to cause damage.

Also it doesn't HAVE to be a line. Could make a roughly round shape out of 40ft squares, I guess... or a V shape to have it travel 120ft down two separate tunnels. Or 60ft down 4 tunnels. 80ft down 3...

Man. That sounds WAY more useful!

there is no mentioning that you can shape mud, just that you can turn certain amount of mud into stone.
yes, does not need to be a line, but if you want to transport army, straight line is best whenever possible.

 

[JamesLFlowers]

Regardless of the regional weather, remember that disease was a medieval armies main foe. Especially due to tainted water. So spells and cantrips which provided clean water or cleaned existing water would be a major impactor on an army. In the real world, a disciplined army with a commanding officer who was a stickler about camp hygiene often won simply due to the fact that his soldiers could fight rather than being sick with dysentery more commonly called The S!!!S. Spells and cantrips that healed or protected the injured would have a major impact as well.

As for waging war in the bad weather seasons, one option might me to move your troops to a point and then encamp someplace that has a major strategic impact, like a trade route or enemies supply route.

 

[Clint_L]

My takeaway, as is often the case, is that it is best to avoid trying to use real world analogies in a fantasy setting with lots of magic, as nothing should be anything like the IRL medieval period. Warfare, cities, travel, life expectancy, social structures, economics, morality...none of these would look anything like Europe in the Middle Ages.

There wouldn't even be castles, let alone sieges.

It's best to just pretend like magic wouldn't change much (even though it totally would) and go about your business.

 

[Steampunkette]

Really depends on how common magic IS.

Most battles would probably just be your standard set piece armies in a world that is slightly more magical than our own. But once you get into the higher and higher high fantasy with wizards above 12th level being kinda common... yeah. Things go -out- the window.

 

[Zardnaar]

Really depends on how common magic IS.

Most battles would probably just be your standard set piece armies in a world that is slightly more magical than our own. But once you get into the higher and higher high fantasy with wizards above 12th level being kinda common... yeah. Things go -out- the window.

Depends how common that high level magic is.

Biggest problem then and now is logistics. The ratio of indirect support to front line soldier hasn't changed since Sparta. It's about 10-1 iirc.

High level magic doesn't have a big enough effect eg mud to stone. If you have enough spellcasters to do that on campaign you're going to have bigger problems vs those spellcaster.

That's why I said plow earth and plant growth would have the biggest impact if you're try8ng to do vaguely realistic armies.

Mud to stone may be more useful in peace the so that 1 caster could build a road or whatever.

Most of the other spells are really only useful squad level unless you can mass produce cantrip spanner. If you can do that you have bigger problems like the high level spellcasters.

Spartan or Knight is CR3 maybe your peasant recruit CR 1/8th. You won't be lining up in formation if fireball is a thing armies have reliable access to.

It's revolutionary war skirmishers, light infantry and trenches.

High level magic is a thing you're probably not marching. It's using a gate or load up on a flying castle or giants cloud.

In my Greek game divine mandate banned use of magic on the battle field.

You would go to war after letting Aries priesthood know. Once invoked anyone fireballing a hoplite formation gets a manifestion of Aries avatar to fight.

Aries could be whatever as long as if you use magic you lose.

 

[Clint_L]

Really depends on how common magic IS.

Most battles would probably just be your standard set piece armies in a world that is slightly more magical than our own. But once you get into the higher and higher high fantasy with wizards above 12th level being kinda common... yeah. Things go -out- the window.

I disagree. I think that cantrips would radically alter history, including warfare, in myriad, profound ways. Not to mention the existence of hundred of sentient species with hugely varying abilities. And the existence of actual gods with provable afterlives.

Hell, just cantrips beginning with the letter M would be a complete game changer.

I think if we allow for even a fraction of the magic in D&D, real history becomes useless as an analogy. So it's best just to accept that this is fantasy and, sure, castles and sieges and stuff.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

One thing I've always wanted to see in fantasy is terraforming and weather control as a part of warfare. For a given value of "fantasy", this is basically what the plagues of Egypt were in the old testament.

So if you want to fight a medieval war in winter, in a fantasy world, the answer is "warm the area up." My first guess would be to try triggering a volcanic eruption in the vicinity.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I disagree. I think that cantrips would radically alter history, including warfare, in myriad, profound ways. Not to mention the existence of hundred of sentient species with hugely varying abilities. And the existence of actual gods with provable afterlives.

I think cantrips would be impactful on battles, just not damaging ones. Low level casters do essentially the same damage using a crossbow as a cantrip. Thats not materially impactful.

Now...what if they could interfere with enemy formations?

Mold Earth can make a 5ft cubic hole with a 5ft cube of dirt adjacent to it, 30ft away. Shape Water cantrip do similar things with snow, assuming its deep enough. That is guaranteed to disrupt a section of a charge.

They can also modify surfaces. Mold Earth can turn up to (3) 5x5 areas of ground into difficult terrain at a time. Shape Water can do the same, turning snow into polished ice ice.

The difficult terrain aren't as blatant as making walls of dirt/snow, so you could make a pit/hill and then put difficult terrain on either side. One low level caster could cause a section of the battle field to bog down. If they leave gaps some troops will move at normal speed and further disrupt the charge.

An irregular advancing line means the lead elements face multiple enemies. It's possible they might redress the line, but the charge will lose momentum (in game terms, some soldiers double-move to catch up, forgoing attacking).

This is much more effective than a few crossbow bolts.

Similarly, Minor Image is handy, especially if you use it to hide a hole, patch of ice, or a scattering of caltrops A 5ft cube of dense, colored "smoke" can be used as a signal, or a way to mark enemies to be targeted by the archers.

Damage is the least impactful thing cantrips add to a battlefield. Thr caster should do all the other stuff.

 

[Hussar]

Let's not forget communication too. Minor Illusion let's you create a 5 foot flag 30 feet in the air. That's easily visible from a long way away. A couple of communication wizards with each commander and you can communicate huge amounts of information pretty quickly.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think cantrips would be impactful on battles, just not damaging ones. Low level casters do essentially the same damage using a crossbow as a cantrip. Thats not materially impactful.

Now...what if they could interfere with enemy formations?

Mold Earth can make a 5ft cubic hole with a 5ft cube of dirt adjacent to it, 30ft away. Shape Water cantrip do similar things with snow, assuming its deep enough. That is guaranteed to disrupt a section of a charge.

They can also modify surfaces. Mold Earth can turn up to (3) 5x5 areas of ground into difficult terrain at a time. Shape Water can do the same, turning snow into polished ice ice.

The difficult terrain aren't as blatant as making walls of dirt/snow, so you could make a pit/hill and then put difficult terrain on either side. One low level caster could cause a section of the battle field to bog down. If they leave gaps some troops will move at normal speed and further disrupt the charge.

An irregular advancing line means the lead elements face multiple enemies. It's possible they might redress the line, but the charge will lose momentum (in game terms, some soldiers double-move to catch up, forgoing attacking).

This is much more effective than a few crossbow bolts.

Similarly, Minor Image is handy, especially if you use it to hide a hole, patch of ice, or a scattering of caltrops A 5ft cube of dense, colored "smoke" can be used as a signal, or a way to mark enemies to be targeted by the archers.

Damage is the least impactful thing cantrips add to a battlefield. Thr caster should do all the other stuff.

Mold earth is most powerful one.