how to convert Fiend Lords (and other singular non-diety beings)?

[Leopold]

so who's up first?

 

[BOZ]

you'll find out within the next 2 hours.

 

[Shade]

Here's a couple of quick tips I use when making epic-level critters that might be helpful:

Monsters have 7 non-epic feats at 20 HD.

To determine the number of epic-level feats, use the following formula:

([Monster's HD - 21] divided by 3) +1.

Thus a 30 HD monster would have ([30-21]/3) +1, or 4 epic-level feats. (One for 21st, 24th, 27th, and 30th HD).

Once a monster's total HD exceed 20, it may select either an epic feat or a nonepic feat for any feats it gains at higher HD.

Save progression stops at 20 HD. After that, epic save progression kicks in. Thus monsters will have +12 in their good saves and +6 in their other saves at 20 HD. To determine the epic save progression, use the following formula:

(Monster's HD - 20/2)

Thus, a 30 HD monster would have (30-20/2), or +5 epic save bonus. This bonus is added to all saves, regardless of whether they were "good" for that monster type. Thus a 30 HD outsider would have Fort +17, Ref +17, and Will +17 when adding its epic save bonus to its nonepic base save bonus.

Base attack bonus continues to advance as it does at nonepic HD.

If I'm wrong on any of this, please let me know.

 

[Krishnath]

]You are wrong about the saves, monsters save progression continues normally.

For example a 28HD aberration would have saves equal to: Fort +9 (HD/3), Ref +9 (HD/3), and Will +16 (HD/2).

Now if said monster would gain any class levels, the BAB and Saves from the class would follow epic progression.

In short: Racial BAB and Saves continue normally, Class BAB and Saves go epic past 20 total HD.

 

[Shade]

I'm just curious, where did you find that information about saves? And how does save progression continue after 20 HD, as the charts cap out at 20th level (+12 for good saves, +6 for others)? Is there a formula?

Most of the monsters over 20 HD in recent books seem to follow the formula I outlined above, although that could just be coincidence.

 

[Krishnath]

It is a coincidence, check out the monsters in the epic level handbook, and the monster manuals, and the fiend folio:

For example.

ELH: Brachyurus (magical beast), 38HD, base saves: Fort +21 (HD/2+2), Ref +21, Will +12 (HD/3, rounded down)

MM, Revised: Earth Elemental, Elder (elemental), 24HD, base saves: Fort +14 (HD/2+2), Ref +8 (HD/3), Will +8 (HD/3)

MM2: Corpse Gatherer (undead), 30HD, base saves: Fort +10 (HD/3), Ref +10 (HD/3), Will +17 (HD/2+2),

and finally,

FF: Yuan-Ti Anathema (abberation), 22HD, base saves: Fort +7 (HD/3, rounded down), Ref +7 (HD/3, Rounded down), Will +13 (HD/2+2).

It's as simple as that, you can check the figures yourself, remeber to take ability scores and feats into account. No don't thank me, it's genetic

 

[Shade]

Well, that is just like WOTC to have a simple formula and not share it.

Since your formula is easier, I'll try to use it instead.

 

[Krishnath]

Not share it? My friend, it's in the books.

MM (revised): Chapter 7: Glossary, page 305-317, look for the creature types.

Alternatly,

MM2: Introduction, page 7-10.

Later,

 

[BOZ]

ah yes, with krishnath and shade on the job, we can accomplish anything! muhahahahahaha...

 

[Krishnath]

Thank you for the vote of confidence.