how to convert Fiend Lords (and other singular non-diety beings)?

[Shade]

Not share it? My friend, it's in the books.

MM (revised): Chapter 7: Glossary, page 305-317, look for the creature types.

Alternatly,

MM2: Introduction, page 7-10.

Later,

I looked over the sources you cited, and still see no reference to a formula. The closest I found was in the Making Monsters chapter of the Monster Manual 3.5:

"Saving Throws and Target CR: In general, a creature's good saving throw bonus should be around (target CR x 1.5), while its poor saving throws should be roughly equal to its target CR. For example, if you are designing a CR 6 monster, a good saving throw bonus of +9 and poor save bonus of +6 should give the monster a decent chance to save against the player characters' attacks without making their attacks ineffectual."

Otherwise, all the information seems to point towards the tables in the Player's Handbook.

Once again, I'm not disagreeing with your method, only that I don't feel it was properly shared by WOTC. They have made improvements by actually including a "Making Monsters" section in the 3.5 Monster Manual, but they still have a long way to go with helping Joe User make his own monsters.

 

[Krishnath]

The formula is quite simple, all you need to know are which saves the creatures have that are bad, and which that are good. Once you know this, all you need to remember is:

Bad saves = HD/3 rounded down.
Good saves = HD/2+2.

It's that simple.

For example, Dragons have all good saves, thusly, a dragon with for example 36 HD, would have saves of Fort +20, Ref +20, and Will +20. While a 21 HD aberration has saves of Fort +7 (bad), Ref +7 (bad) and Will +12 (good).

It's quite simple really.

 

[Shade]

Once again, I agree with your formula, and do agree that it is easy. All I've been arguing is that WOTC does not present it in any of their books, which would be nice for novice monster makers out there.

I think they've made strides toward better monster creation/advancement information, but still have a long way to go. For example, nowhere do they state that if you advance a monster, you should also advance its SR. Obviously, if you do not, the SR will quickly become pointless.

I love the formula and will be using it from now on. I just wish the people who don't read this forum would have a chance to learn about it.

 

[Krishnath]

Actually, WotC mentions increasing a monsters SR in some instances, but it is easily missed. for the dragons for example, it mentions that the dragons SR is increased by 2 for each 3HD it gains. While in Savage Species it is mentioned that a Mindflayers SR is equal to 10+it's class level (note that the Mindflayer Monster class has 15 levels, giving a fully grown mindflayer a SR equal to 25).

But I agree, WotC really need to release an updated version of the old Monster Creation article from Dragon.

 

[BOZ]

just bumping this old thread to check something out. move along, citizen...

 

[Garnfellow]

Hacamuli

OK, this thread seemed to go into hibernation for the winter. Since it’s finally feeling like spring, here’s a converted epic fiend that I’m using in my campaign: the demon lord Hacamuli, from Tom Moldvay’s excellent article “Demons, Devils, and Spirits” in Dragon 42. I’m really surprised that no one has yet resurrected old Hacamuli for 3e: it’s a 1st edition demon lord, it’s by Tom Moldvay, and it’s one of Orcus’s own fricken servants! How can a DM go wrong?

Anyway, here’s the original text:

Hacamuli

FREQUENCY: Very Rare (Unique)
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVE: 12”
HIT DICE: 60 hit points
% IN LAIR: 50%
TREASURE TYPE: U
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-10/1-10
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: +1 or better weapon to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 60%
INTELLIGENCE: High
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic Evil
SIZE: L
PSIONIC ABILITY: 150
Attack/Defense Modes: ACE/ABE

Hacamuli is one of the messengers of Orcus. He appears as a pale, gaunt horse with hazy black eyes. Flies crawl over his mangy, sore-infested body. By gazing into a victim’s eyes, Hacamuli drains three life levels (save vs. death) with appropriate changes in hit points and skill level if the player character does not make his saving throw.

In battle, Hacamuli rears up on his hind legs, striking with both front hooves. Each hoof does 1-10 points of damage. In addition, a hit by the right hoof will cause aging 3-30 years (no save) and a hit by the left hoof will cause disease (save versus death; if made, the disease is mild, if not made, the disease is terminal). Two mild diseases equal a severe case. Three mild cases or a mild case in addition to a severe case equals a terminal case.

Non-magical armor, upon receiving a second hit from the right hoof, will disintegrate in a shower of rust. Magical armor must save versus disintegration each time it is hit. If the save is made, nothing happens to the armor; if not made, the armor loses +1 permanently. When all bonuses are gone, the magical armor is treated as non-magical armor.

Hacamuli has a 60% chance of gating in 2-12 shadows, and a 50% chance of gating in 1-4 vampires. Hacamuli has the normal demon abilities of infravision and teleportation (no error). He can cast darkness in a 20’ radius. Maximum damage caused against him per attack is the same as for any other demon.

 

[Garnfellow]

Hacamuli 3e

I converted Hacamuli using my guidelines posted above. Note that I have not updated my archfiend ability arrays for the 3.5 revisions -- and thus, while Hacamuli’s ability scores are in line with the Book of Vile Darkness archfiends, they are considerably lower than a 3.5 balor’s. At some point in the future I might sit down with the Book of Exalted Deeds and try to revise my fiendish ability arrays. Or maybe not.

I’ve found the Game Mechanics method of doing up stat blocks to be extremely helpful, so I’ve included my backup math in red, for anyone who’s interested. I gave Hacamuli the epic feat Dire Charge; if epic rules aren’t your bag, I’d suggest dropping Improved Initiative and Dire Charge and replacing them with Improved Bull Rush and Awesome Blow.

=====

Hacamuli is one of the messengers of Orcus. In battle, Hacamuli rears up on his hind legs, striking with both front hooves.

This demonic figure appears as a pale, gaunt horse with hazy black eyes. Flies crawl over his mangy, sore-infested body.

Hacamuli _____ CR 19
Male unique demon
CE Large outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative); Senses darkvision 60 ft., true seeing; Listen +25, Spot +25
-----
Languages Abyssal, telepathy 100 ft.
AC 34, touch 22, flat-footed 31 (+3 Dex, -1 size, +12 natural, +5 insight, +5 profane)
hp 297 (22 HD); DR 15/epic and good
Immune critical hits, electricity, poison
Resist acid 10, cold 10, fire 10; SR 31
Fort +22, Ref +16, Will +18 (Outsider F+13, R+13, W+13; Con +9, Dex +3, Wis +5)
-----
Spd 30 ft (6 squares)
Melee +30 (1d10+9 plus wither, right hoof) (+22 BAB, +9 Str, -1 size) and +30 (1d10+9 plus disease, left hoof) (+22 BAB, +9 Str, -1 size)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Base Atk +22; Grp +35
Atk Options disease (DC 28), rusting touch (DC 28), wither (DC 28)
Special Actions draining gaze (DC 28), summon undead
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 20th)
At will—blasphemy, deeper darkness, desecrate, detect good, detect law, detect thoughts (DC 19), dominate monster (DC 26), greater dispel magic, greater teleport, insanity (DC 24), plane shift (self only), telekinesis (DC 22), tongues (self only), unhallow, unholy blight (DC 21)
-----
Abilities Str 28, Dex 17, Con 28, Int 19, Wis 21, Cha 24
Feats Blind Fight 6th level, Cleave 12th level, Dire Charge 21st level, Improved Initiative 15th level, Power Attack 9th level, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (deeper darkness) 18th level, Run 1st level, Track 3rd level
Skills Bluff +22, Concentration +29, Diplomacy +31, Gather Information +27, Hide +9, Intimidate +38, Jump +19, Knowledge (arcana) +14, Knowledge (religion) +19, Knowledge (the planes) +29, Listen +25, Move Silently +13, Search +29, Sense Motive +25, Spot +25, Survival +30 (+32 on other planes or following tracks), Swim +19
-----
Disease (Su) Any living creature stuck by Hacamuli’s left hoof must make a DC 28 Fortitude save or become inflicted with a supernatural rotting disease. Incubation period 1 round; damage 1d6 Con and 1d6 Cha. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Draining Gaze (Su) As a standard action, Hacamuli can drain energy from a living creature within 30 feet with a look. The target creature must succeed on a DC 28 Fortitude save or gain three negative levels. The DC is 28 for the Fortitude save to remove a negative level. The save DC is Charisma-based. For each such negative level bestowed, Hacamuli gains 5 temporary hit points.
Rusting Touch (Su) Whenever Hacamuli damages an opponent with a hoof attack, any metal armor worn by the opponent corrodes, disintegrating in a shower of rust and becoming useless immediately. Magic armor must succeed on a DC 30 Reflex save or be dissolved. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Summon Undead (Sp): Once per day Hacamuli can attempt to summon 2d6 fiendish shadows with a 60% chance of success, or 1d4 fiendish vampire spawns with a 50% chance of success. This ability is the equivalent of a 6th-level spell.
Wither (Su) Any living creature stuck by Hacamuli’s right hoof must make a DC 28 Fortitude save or suffer 1d4 points of Strength damage and 1d4 points of Constitution damage. If Hacamuli scores a critical hit, the damage from that hit is permanent ability drain. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Skills (Outsider): Bluff 15 ranks (+7 Cha), Concentration 20 ranks (+9 Con), Diplomacy 20 ranks (+7 Cha, +4 synergy), Gather Information 20 ranks (+7 Cha), Hide 10 ranks (+3 Dex, -4 size), Intimidate 25 ranks (+7 Cha, +4 size, +2 synergy), Jump 10 ranks (+9 Str), Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks (+4 Int), Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks (+4 Int), Knowledge (the planes) 25 ranks (+4 Int), Listen 20 ranks (+5 Wis), Move Silently 10 ranks (+3 Dex), Search 25 ranks (+4 Int), Sense Motive 20 ranks (+5 Wis), Spot 20 ranks (+5 Wis), Survival 25 ranks (+5 Wis, +2 synergy**), Swim 10 ranks (+9 Str) = 300 (300 skill points)

NOTE: Number of feats is derived as follows: 1 at 1st +1 at 3rd +1 at 6th +1 at 9th +1 at 12th +1 at 15th +1 at 18th +1 at 21st = 8.

 

[BOZ]

wow, my bad! wasn't even thinking about him...

 

[Garnfellow]

wow, my bad! wasn't even thinking about him...

But I bet he's been thinking about you.

Mwah ha ha ha!

 

[Garnfellow]

Common Spell-Like Abilities

For the curious, the following are at will spell-like abilities common to all BoVD demon princes: blasphemy, deeper darkness, desecrate, detect good, detect law, detect thoughts, greater dispel magic, greater teleport, telekinesis, tongues (self only), unhallow, unholy blight.

The following are at will spell-like abilities common to all BoVD archdevils (except the anomalous Hag Countess): blasphemy (DC 17 + Cha mod), charm person (DC 11 + Cha mod) [or charm monster (DC 14 + Cha mod)], desecrate, detect good, detect magic, dispel magic [or greater dispel magic], greater teleport, hold person (DC 13 + Cha mod) [or hold monster (DC 15 + Cha mod)], magic circle against good, major image (DC 13 + Cha mod), suggestion (DC 13 + Cha mod), unhallow, unholy aura.

All archdevils except the deposed Geryon have the following at will spell-like abilities: animate dead, create undead [or create greater undead], greater invisibility, polymorph, true seeing.

In addition, all archdevils can use limited wish [or wish] 1/day as a spell-like ability.