ThorinTeague
Creative/Father/Professor
When you're at my table, good, evil, min max, heavy RP, doesn't matter, you're on a team. Period. If what your character would do isn't agreeable and fun for everybody, then you need a new character.
Yes, that rings a bell, but I too don't know the source.Well, I'm having a devil of a time finding which Dragon it was in, but I definitely recall (for whatever that's worth) Gygax saying that not letting elves and orcs get raised was at least in part to offset their other powers, because if they could be raised then why would anyone play a human?
I suspect that was the case. I mean hell, this is the guy who wrote Tomb of Horrors!I could, of course, be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure I'm not here. And hey, maybe Gygax ran meatgrinder games where raise dead was common.
Hide in Shadows and Move Silently.HS/MS? What's that?
Ah, gotcha. The context was melee backstriking, so I wondered if the H and M stood for Hit and Miss and the S was something unknown.Hide in Shadows and Move Silently.
Yeah sorry, I'm not sure when I started using those abbreviations to write down my abilities on my character sheet, so I sometimes forget that not everyone might know my shorthand.Ah, gotcha. The context was melee backstriking, so I wondered if the H and M stood for Hit and Miss and the S was something unknown.![]()
I always thought of the Gray Mouser and James Bond and later on ninjas as the archetypes for D&D thieves and so lightly armored effective dirty fighting skirmishers from 3e on worked for me as a mechanical role.Yeah, sneak attack has become pretty common. Then again, for some reason the designers decided to make Rogues into big-time damage-dealers, which isn't exactly where their roots lie.
Characters in GURPS get compensated for disadvantages so it's just part of min/maxing.
M&M 2e, and later Fate, showed me what can be done in this design space: When a disadvantage actually hinders you in a meaningful way, you get a narrative resource. When it's not actually being a disadvantage, it does nothing for you. So now people are encouraged to lean into their flaws, especially when they're low on narrative influence, and story beats just kind of happen!
Now some of you might say that this could all be avoided in Session 0 when everyone makes characters together. But I'm going to be honest; I have never witnessed a Session Zero where that happens. Somewhere beyond "who is going to be melee? Who can heal?" talks always break down and people create the exact character they want to play, without asking for much input.
Ninjas for me are the archetype for Monks more than Thieves.I always thought of the Gray Mouser and James Bond and later on ninjas as the archetypes for D&D thieves
Fair enough, though IMO at very low levels most if not all characters should still be close to "ordinary guy" status. That status falls off later as they gain in levels, powers, etc.I was never really fond of the noncombatant ordinary guy Bilbo Burglar model for thieves.
80s ninja media had a lot of martial arts but also a lot of stealth and climbing and deception and infiltration.Ninjas for me are the archetype for Monks more than Thieves.
Eh? AD&D Monks had the following Thief abilities: Open Locks, Find/Remove Traps, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise, and Climb Walls, all as a Thief of their Monk level.80s ninja media had a lot of martial arts but also a lot of stealth and climbing and deception and infiltration.
AD&D monks had martial arts but no stealth aspects at all. Bruce Lee much more than Michaelangelo and Rafael for me.
Looking it up in the 1e PH and 1e OA, you are correct! My memory did not include that at all.Eh? AD&D Monks had the following Thief abilities: Open Locks, Find/Remove Traps, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise, and Climb Walls, all as a Thief of their Monk level.
Oh yeah, because the 2e Monk was a Priest kit (and a terrible one), as I recall.Looking it up in the 1e PH and 1e OA, you are correct! My memory did not include that at all.
2e fighting monks from the Complete Priest and Monks from the 2e FR books do not get such thief abilities though.
The 2e Fighting-Monk was a Priest kit from Complete Priest's Handbook which was basically a base priest (cleric, druid, specialty priest) with martial arts/wrestling/punching fighter specialization but no armor and fewer spheres to pick spells from.Oh yeah, because the 2e Monk was a Priest kit (and a terrible one), as I recall.
There were a bunch of BS limitations put on nonhumans because GG couldn't fathom anyone might have other reasons than game mechanics for game and character choices. Which I'm sure probably came from his generation of [war]gamers and the specific circle he rolled with. (Communities were not so globally connected back then.)Well, I'm having a devil of a time finding which Dragon it was in, but I definitely recall (for whatever that's worth) Gygax saying that not letting elves and orcs get raised was at least in part to offset their other powers, because if they could be raised then why would anyone play a human?
I could, of course, be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure I'm not here. And hey, maybe Gygax ran meatgrinder games where raise dead was common.
Which is really odd that he never thought to give Humans advantages on par with the so-called "Demihumans". I don't really count unlimited level advancement, since so few characters ever reached such lofty heights of power.There were a bunch of BS limitations put on nonhumans because GG couldn't fathom anyone might have other reasons than game mechanics for game and character choices. Which I'm sure probably came from his generation of [war]gamers and the specific circle he rolled with. (Communities were not so globally connected back then.)
Beats me. The +1 to each stat works pretty well, although it may have imbalanced 1e. (Which some would say wasn’t balanced to begin with.)Which is really odd that he never thought to give Humans advantages on par with the so-called "Demihumans". I don't really count unlimited level advancement, since so few characters ever reached such lofty heights of power.
Well, our ancestors were persistence predators, so even if most humans today are cream puffs, we still have the potential for better stamina than a large chunk of the animal kingdom. And according to scientists, the reason we succeeded over our closest relatives was due to our superior ability to communicate and coordinate with one another.Beats me. The +1 to each stat works pretty well, although it may have imbalanced 1e. (Which some would say wasn’t balanced to begin with.)
Well, our ancestors were persistence predators, so even if most humans today are cream puffs, we still have the potential for better stamina than a large chunk of the animal kingdom. And according to scientists, the reason we succeeded over our closest relatives was due to our superior ability to communicate and coordinate with one another.
So a bonus to Constitution or Charisma isn't wildly unbelievable.