D&D (2024) How to import "race" flavor into D&D 2024 inclusively

the way i interpreted horwath's suggestion is that they were all pulled from as part of the same pool of options, that, for example you could invest so heaviliy in species traits that you wouldn't be able to pick anything to represent your background traits
If D&D was more like Mutants and Masterminds, this probably would be an issue. The latter RPG requires you to buy everything from a single pool of power points (ability scores, attack bonus, defense bonus, saves bonuses, skills, feats and powers). Investing too much in any one of these M&M features would mean you would have less to share and spend elsewhere. D&D otoh allows you to invest things for your race, background and class separately.
 

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Horwath

Legend
care to elaborate how
have racial traits be only non-changeable biological traits that cannot be shuffled around:

movement speed, type(swim, fly, burrow, teleport)
darkvision
Perception proficiency and/or expertise
bonus HPs
various resistances/immunities
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons
telepathy

and why you think those should be implemented that way?
it's simpler.
you take rest of "racial budget point" that are not used in biological traits and put them into "custom" choice.

I.E. why should jungle elves of Chult that are fighters have mandatory heavy armor proficiency, or even medium?
did they even want to use that? in that environment? maybe proficiency+expertise in Survival would be better than medium+heavy armor proficiency?

i say this as someone who is generally dissatisfied by the fact that class is such a monolith of a character's creation, species and background are pretty much window dressing in comparison most of the time, you're not the DRAGONBORN RANGER ACOLYTE you're the DRAGONBORN RANGER ACOLYTE, i don't exactly expect species and background to be an equal third each of character creation but i'd prefer it if they were given a little more design weight rather than just being written off before the 'real features' are picked as you put it.
then you take background budget, class proficiency budget and what is left from racial budget into one step and get your starting proficiencies.
 

have racial traits be only non-changeable biological traits that cannot be shuffled around:

movement speed, type(swim, fly, burrow, teleport)
darkvision
Perception proficiency and/or expertise
bonus HPs
various resistances/immunities
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons
telepathy


it's simpler.
you take rest of "racial budget point" that are not used in biological traits and put them into "custom" choice.

I.E. why should jungle elves of Chult that are fighters have mandatory heavy armor proficiency, or even medium?
did they even want to use that? in that environment? maybe proficiency+expertise in Survival would be better than medium+heavy armor proficiency?


then you take background budget, class proficiency budget and what is left from racial budget into one step and get your starting proficiencies.
How big of a character creation budget are we talking about here?
 

Horwath

Legend
How big of a character creation budget are we talking about here?
for race, I would say 6pts:

movement speed, type(swim 1pt , fly(half speed) 4pts , burrow 3pts, climb 1pt, teleport(limited), 2pts)
darkvision 1pt
Perception proficiency 1pt and/or expertise 1pt
bonus HPs, 2pts
various resistances/immunities 1 or 2pts
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons 1pt
telepathy 1pt
"work in progress"

background:
2 skills, 1pt each
combination of 3 tools or languages, 1pt
feat(any), 5pts
that is 8pts

class: I.E. fighter.
2 skills, 1pt each
martial weapons, 2pts
armor; light, medium, heavy, shields, 1pt each
Con save, 2pts
Str save, 1pt
total 11pts

that comes to 25pts, minus predetermined for race.
humans get all 25pts to pick.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
you take rest of "racial budget point" that are not used in biological traits and put them into "custom" choice.

I.E. why should jungle elves of Chult that are fighters have mandatory heavy armor proficiency, or even medium?
did they even want to use that? in that environment? maybe proficiency+expertise in Survival would be better than medium+heavy armor proficiency?

then you take background budget, class proficiency budget and what is left from racial budget into one step and get your starting proficiencies.
I pretty much agree with being able to customize the Level 1 Class features. Especially the proficiencies and training.

A less intimidating way to think about it is simply to allow "swaps". This way, the Class is what it is, and players dont need to reinvent the wheel, but swaps are possible for character concepts that require them, whether because of cultural background or individual circumstance.

You mention Chult elven Fighters are unlikely to train in Heavy Armor or even Medium. Similarly, High elven Fighters are likely to acquire a cantrip or a slot 1 per day rather than Heavy Armor. Medium Armor made out of the mithril metal and therefore Light, or Heavy made out of it and therefore Medium − would be traditional among wealthy courtiers. But most High culture Elves would rely on the Mage Armor spell or variants of it.

Not every culture uses leather armor, and sometimes a shield for a Rogue makes more sense.


Designwise, the Level 1 of a class is very front loaded. Where each level is normally worth about a Level 4 Feat. Except Level 1 of a class is made out of a design space of two or three such Feats. Thus Level 1 includes a Level 0 of the class before gaining the Level 1. The content from this Class Level 0 represents the formative personal interest or talent, or novice introductory training, and includes features like Skill and Toolset Proficiency and Armor Training. It can be, a character that was originally training to be a Wizard but then switched to Fighter, or viceversa.

Especially for the Fighters who are "on track" to become Eldritch Knights at level 3 should already have some magical and spellcasting training at level 1. This magical training can easily be a Fighting Style option, but it might also make sense to swap out the Heavy Armor Training for two cantrips or slot 1 (typically Mage Armor) and slot 2 per Long Rest.


Again, the simplest way to approach this is level of customization is to allow a feature swap where appropriate. It is one of the situations where for the player "you and your DM agree".


Sometimes I really wish they combine racial, background and 1st level class proficiencies(skills, tools, armor, weapons, cantrips, saves) into one pool and one and only step for character creation before "real" class features.
If D&D was more like Mutants and Masterminds, this probably would be an issue. The latter RPG requires you to buy everything from a single pool of power points (ability scores, attack bonus, defense bonus, saves bonuses, skills, feats and powers).
Yeah, I think of this as the "superhero game": pick ones powers then come up with an "origin story" for them. The origin can be because of anything: species, background, or class.

have racial traits be only non-changeable biological traits that cannot be shuffled around:

movement speed, type(swim, fly, burrow, teleport)
darkvision
Perception proficiency and/or expertise
bonus HPs
various resistances/immunities
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons
telepathy
All of these traits might be shuffled around. It depends on the specific species concept.

When a Human exhibits telepathy because of psionic, the psionic is Innate, but might express itself during adulthood, and many Humans dont exhibit the psionic trait. Meanwhile a character can acquire psionic traits because of exposure to some powerful mental influence, including from the Astral Plane. Note, the Psi Warrior presents psionic as innate but dormant, and requiring one to figure it out. Since any species is potentially psionic, it implies the soul itself (ones consciousness), which all Humanoids exhibit, is the source of the psionic power.

Darkvision can be conferred by magical ritual. Class can alter modes of movement, Perception is learned. Hit points are learned, via class experience and Constitution improvement, including the intangible aspects of hit points, etcetera. All of these traits are shufflable.

When it comes to creating a species, it strictly depends on the specific concept. There is no list of traits that every species must subscribe to.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
In terms of budget, 2024 has the following design space:

• Species = 3 Background Feats (≈ 1½ Level 4 Feats)
• Background = 1 Background Feat as the free feat (plus 1 feat for the two skills, one toolset, and three languages)


I view Species as the prerogative of the DM, who can keep the three Background Feats in mind if creating or modifying a species for a setting.

The Background is the prerogative of the player, albeit the DM still needs to figure out how unusual choices make sense within the setting.


The Classes are more complex. Their Level 1 design spaces shouldnt but do differ from each other. Some classes at level 1 are noticeably more powerful at level 1 than other classes. In any case, feature swaps are a simple approach.
 

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
have racial traits be only non-changeable biological traits that cannot be shuffled around:

movement speed, type(swim, fly, burrow, teleport)
darkvision
Perception proficiency and/or expertise
bonus HPs
various resistances/immunities
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons
telepathy


it's simpler.
you take rest of "racial budget point" that are not used in biological traits and put them into "custom" choice.

I.E. why should jungle elves of Chult that are fighters have mandatory heavy armor proficiency, or even medium?
did they even want to use that? in that environment? maybe proficiency+expertise in Survival would be better than medium+heavy armor proficiency?


then you take background budget, class proficiency budget and what is left from racial budget into one step and get your starting proficiencies.
for race, I would say 6pts:

movement speed, type(swim 1pt , fly(half speed) 4pts , burrow 3pts, climb 1pt, teleport(limited), 2pts)
darkvision 1pt
Perception proficiency 1pt and/or expertise 1pt
bonus HPs, 2pts
various resistances/immunities 1 or 2pts
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons 1pt
telepathy 1pt
"work in progress"

background:
2 skills, 1pt each
combination of 3 tools or languages, 1pt
feat(any), 5pts
that is 8pts

class: I.E. fighter.
2 skills, 1pt each
martial weapons, 2pts
armor; light, medium, heavy, shields, 1pt each
Con save, 2pts
Str save, 1pt
total 11pts

that comes to 25pts, minus predetermined for race.
humans get all 25pts to pick.
oh, so rather than one big pool that all the traits exist in with languages, skills, natural weapons and equipment proficiencies all next to each other on the same pointbuy you separate them out into their apropriate groups with their individual points to use, so as you said 'species traits' would be the selection of immutable biological abilities and wouldn't be able to cut into your class's traits,

i think i was confused by your use of "combine [various trait sources] into one pool and one and only step for character creation before class features"

i assume classes would still offer fundamentally different selections to build from or have different amounts of pointbuy, a wizard isn't going to offer heavy armour and given that more of their power is invested in actual class abilities that would result in less points dedicated to their proficiencies and such

personally i might have an additional few floating points that could be invested anywhere across species, background or class traits, just to add that extra edge to individual customisation, so say i might get a few extra things from class and background to represent how my character studied a bit harder while my buddy mike next to me at the table decides to put all their points in species traits to make their dwarf the dwarfiest dwarf they can.
 

for race, I would say 6pts:

movement speed, type(swim 1pt , fly(half speed) 4pts , burrow 3pts, climb 1pt, teleport(limited), 2pts)
darkvision 1pt
Perception proficiency 1pt and/or expertise 1pt
bonus HPs, 2pts
various resistances/immunities 1 or 2pts
natural weapons/armor/breathweapons/poisons 1pt
telepathy 1pt
"work in progress"

background:
2 skills, 1pt each
combination of 3 tools or languages, 1pt
feat(any), 5pts
that is 8pts

class: I.E. fighter.
2 skills, 1pt each
martial weapons, 2pts
armor; light, medium, heavy, shields, 1pt each
Con save, 2pts
Str save, 1pt
total 11pts

that comes to 25pts, minus predetermined for race.
humans get all 25pts to pick.
Pathfinder 1st edition's Advanced Race Guide has a chapter where all of racial traits for it's PF1 races are given a point cost. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/creating-new-races This link will provide you with the point cost for every available trait that a given race could have.

Humans in PF1 btw cost about 9 points. ;)
 

oh, so rather than one big pool that all the traits exist in with languages, skills, natural weapons and equipment proficiencies all next to each other on the same pointbuy you separate them out into their apropriate groups with their individual points to use, so as you said 'species traits' would be the selection of immutable biological abilities and wouldn't be able to cut into your class's traits,

i think i was confused by your use of "combine [various trait sources] into one pool and one and only step for character creation before class features"

i assume classes would still offer fundamentally different selections to build from or have different amounts of pointbuy, a wizard isn't going to offer heavy armour and given that more of their power is invested in actual class abilities that would result in less points dedicated to their proficiencies and such

personally i might have an additional few floating points that could be invested anywhere across species, background or class traits, just to add that extra edge to individual customisation, so say i might get a few extra things from class and background to represent how my character studied a bit harder while my buddy mike next to me at the table decides to put all their points in species traits to make their dwarf the dwarfiest dwarf they can.
My aversion to point-buy species helps me understand a little better why others don't like picking and choosing bestial abilities for Wildshape templates.

But it's the assigning of point values to individual abilities that rubs me the wrong way. People aren't necessarily going to agree on the point value of individual "abilities" compared to each other. Some abilities are little more than ribbons or variants that will never be chosen unless it fits a "build".
 

Horwath

Legend
i assume classes would still offer fundamentally different selections to build from or have different amounts of pointbuy, a wizard isn't going to offer heavy armour and given that more of their power is invested in actual class abilities that would result in less points dedicated to their proficiencies and such
wizard might be limited to "buying" only light armor and/or shields and nothing above. Basic military training.
a fighter might have limit of only 2 cantrips to choose. Arcane dabbler.

skills could be maxed at 8 or 10 so no one has all skills at lvl1. but, it would be an interesting character to play from the start. Using 18 out of 25 pts for skills.

maybe someone want to be extra tough and and resilient so he takes all saves at lvl1, 6pts for 3 strong saves and 3pts for 3 weak saves. 2pts for extra 1HP per level.
 

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