D&D (2024) How to import "race" flavor into D&D 2024 inclusively

[CreamCloud0]

Those "traditions" are formed by institutions.

and yet the traditions managed to come long before those institutions were formally established, strange how that works isn't it?

 

[Yaarel]

and yet the traditions managed to come long before those institutions were formally established, strange how that works isn't it?

The word "tradition" itself refers to an institution, such as the tradition of marriage, and its limits (monogamy, polygamy, nonmarital partnership, exclusivity, polyamory, etcetera) and spousal obligations, and custody rights, and divorce rights, and inheritance rights, and legal culpability if abuse, etcetera.

Every traditional value is purely made out of self-perpetuation institutions.

There is no such thing as a "tradition" without a cultural institution.

 

[Yaarel]

Cultural institutions conflict with each other.

A family tradition might prioritize mutual support and spending quality time together, while oppositely a corporate institution might actively prevent its workers from spending a weekly holy day, or annual holiday, or see a childs play or sports game, or be able to commit to any obligation with family or friends − actively prevent quality time.

 

[Yaarel]

Heh, going back to "biology" before the human sciences segue.

okay, but the thing is, when i talk about species and saying that i want them to have strong inherent flavour i am specifically talking about the biological aspects of them, if all the flavour for a species comes from their culture then that's not exactly anything to do with their species is it? if everything defining about them comes from a learned society

background and culture are additional ways to impart flavour to a character, not as a substitution for species flavour

i think that there should exist 'species stereotypes' because that means there is actually something that significantly stands out about them enough to be memorable, something that sets them apart from just being short or tall or scally or green humans

it is not 'racist' to say that a monkey is inherently more predisposed to being capable of climbing or that a boar is tougher and stronger, just because you've made them humanoid shape and given them some brains, the apefolk is lithe and long limbed, with narrow fingers that can find purchase in small cracks, the boarfolk has denser muscles, is stockier and a better centre of gravity.

I mention "biology" in scare-quotes because, of course, it refers to a fantasy setting that only uses the concept loosely, to include freewill magical self-transformations, and forms and characteristics that in reallife today seem impossible.

If the description says, Halflings can use oversized weapons "because magic", then that is a legitimate explanation. (I feel Gnomes should do so because magic, because the Norwegian gnome − tomte/tuft − is a superhumanly, immaterially strong force.)

The problem only happens if the goal is to assign a naturalistic nonmagical flavor to the Halfling.


As far as I can tell, if one forgives my generalization, the only hangup old schoolers really have is ... Size.

It cant be the Dexterity boost, because most "races" have a Dexterity boost. There is zero distinctive about a having a Dexterity boost.


"It isnt racist to say that a monkey is more predisposed to climbing." The same is still true for the UA 2024 Halfling Species that is predisposed to being "naturally stealthy", "nimble", and even "brave" perhaps having less of a flight-or-fight adrenaline response than the Human species has.

The "brave" personality gets murky into a racist stereotype but it is still there in the UA. Saying Halflings have "less adrenaline" sotospeak, and Orcs "more adrenaline" is anatomically conceivable.


I will deal with "luck" later since that is a magical nonanatomical characteristic. Flavorwise, this luck coheres the Astral realms, rather than the Fey realms that one might expect for a "hob" or "hobbit", house sprite.

Perhaps, when the Halfling wields an oversized greatsword, the Halfling appears as if clumsy and wobbly and lurching, yet somehow manages to land the blade precisely and devastatingly because of bizarre luck?

 

[Bagpuss]

i think if you try to make all species equally viable for all classes you're going to end up with very bland species, or at least ones with very minimal impact on playstyle, which is kind of the opposite of what i, personally at least, want, but i do agree that making some species wholesale worse at performing particular roles isn't the way to go.

Totally agree, very bland, but it seems to be what WotC think people want with stuff like their removal of racial stat modifiers, size modifiers for weapons, every background/culture available to every character, etc.

 

[Yaarel]

Totally agree, very bland, but it seems to be what WotC think people want with stuff like their removal of racial stat modifiers, size modifiers for weapons, every background/culture available to every character, etc.

It is possible to talk about Size without talking about Strength bonuses or penalties.

With this more sensible approach, that interferes less with character options, I am ok with Size having meaningful mechanics.

To be honest, a Halfling with a greatsword or other polearm gives me pause. Recently, I have been scrutinizing height, weight, and weightlifting, and proportional relationships between them. A Halfling is remarkably small, somewhere from a 2 year old to a 5 year old. Even if they have the mature neurology of an adult and are remarkably strong, it is difficult to imagine how they would wield an oversized weapon.

This pause has nothing to do with game balance. It is mechanically fine for Halflings to wield such weapons just like any other species can. The problem is strictly flavor. So any mechanical punishments seem inappropriate.

Maybe there can be a way to allow Halflings to use Heavy weapons, but in a way that communicates that such is atypical. The problem is flavor, so maybe the solution is flavor too.

 

[Bagpuss]

This pause has nothing to do with game balance. It is mechanically fine for Halflings to wield such weapons just like any other species can. The problem is strictly flavor. So any mechanical punishments seem inappropriate.

Maybe there can be a way to allow Halflings to use Heavy weapons, but in a way that communicates that such is atypical. The problem is flavor, so maybe the solution is flavor too.

I'm a strong believer in the mechanics reflecting the flavour, and vise versa. It usually leads to a strong sense of verisimilitude.

Although by that I mean real to the game world, not the real world, so for example Doctor Who's initiative system where fighting only comes after exhausting other means of dealing with the situation, like talking, running away or coming up with some clever solution, has verisimilitude with the established setting even if shooting someone in the real world would be faster than the Tardis appearing around someone to protect them.

If the mechanics and the flavour don't match then it just feels jarring, and can take you out of the game.

 

[CreamCloud0]

It is possible to talk about Size without talking about Strength bonuses or penalties.

With this more sensible approach, that interferes less with character options, I am ok with Size having meaningful mechanics.

To be honest, a Halfling with a greatsword or other polearm gives me pause. Recently, I have been scrutinizing height, weight, and weightlifting, and proportional relationships between them. A Halfling is remarkably small, somewhere from a 2 year old to a 5 year old. Even if they have the mature neurology of an adult and are remarkably strong, it is difficult to imagine how they would wield an oversized weapon.

This pause has nothing to do with game balance. It is mechanically fine for Halflings to wield such weapons just like any other species can. The problem is strictly flavor. So any mechanical punishments seem inappropriate.

Maybe there can be a way to allow Halflings to use Heavy weapons, but in a way that communicates that such is atypical. The problem is flavor, so maybe the solution is flavor too.

even it it 'makes sense' giving small species penalties with heavy weapons, carrying capacity and suchlike i think it is a very unfun piece of realism to implement into this fantasy game especially considering it also contains things like giants and dragons that violate the square-cube law without so much as a glance at their impossiblity, if they have the requisite STR i don't see why a halfling or a goblin couldn't swing around a greatsword bigger than they are with ease, it fits perfectly into the kind of fantasy DnD is.

 

[Senior_WotC_Janitor]

it just feels jarring, and can take you out of the game.

How tabletop gamers began to worship around this altar of "immersion," I will never understand.

 

[CreamCloud0]

How tabletop gamers began to worship around this altar of "immersion," I will never understand.

you don't understand that, in a game about authentically embodying a fictional character why people might value being able to put themselves in the headspace of that reality and not getting reminded that it's all fake make-believe?