How to kill a troll - need answer now as in game
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underfoot007ct
First Post
Yes
Any rules or reasonings to justify.
As the wording is:
"If the troll is reduced to zero by an attack that does not include acid or zero then it rises on its next turn as a move action with 10 HP's"
D'karr
Adventurer
It's a parsing of words but it makes sense.
Let's say player A did a weapon attack that took the troll to -3 HP (but creatures don't drop below 0). That attack took the troll to 0 or below, but it was not fire or acid. On the troll's next turn he'll be rising up with X HP. If the troll's turn is next, he rises.
However, if it's player B's turn before the troll and he applies some torch damage for 3 points of damage now the troll receives damage that takes him to -6 HP (but creatures don't drop below 0). So he took damage that still drops him to 0, and in this case it was fire damage. So the troll is destroyed.
As a DM I'd have a very hard time justifying that doing damage to something that is already damaged does not do more damage (creatures don't drop below 0)... So it makes sense.
Let's say player A did a weapon attack that took the troll to -3 HP (but creatures don't drop below 0). That attack took the troll to 0 or below, but it was not fire or acid. On the troll's next turn he'll be rising up with X HP. If the troll's turn is next, he rises.
However, if it's player B's turn before the troll and he applies some torch damage for 3 points of damage now the troll receives damage that takes him to -6 HP (but creatures don't drop below 0). So he took damage that still drops him to 0, and in this case it was fire damage. So the troll is destroyed.
As a DM I'd have a very hard time justifying that doing damage to something that is already damaged does not do more damage (creatures don't drop below 0)... So it makes sense.
I don't think there is any "absolutely official RAW" reason this would work, but it is fair to justify it as follows.
You light the troll on fire while it is down and shift backwards to avoid burning (fair for this "light and move" to be a Standard Action, "improvised attack" imo) the effect of which is Ongoing Fire 5(save ends) and a 1 square zone of fire which does "If creature starts its turn in this zone it takes ongoing fire damage 5. If it already has an effect causing ongoing fire damage increase the damage by 5 and the target may not save against that effect (if a save would end it) this turn".
Thus starting its turn in the zone will cause it to increase its Ongoing Fire Damage (from the original lighting) to 10 and ensure it will kick in next turn = dead by fire = permanent. The net effect of this is, at worst, one round of stand up (with 10HP) and attack something in range atm then fall over at the start of next turn. So assuming the players don't stand next to the fire the net effect is stand up, shamble, die. As such just have it stay down.
Basically your DM should allow "hurt by fire while dead-ish" = don't get up. Especially as the property on the troll should really say "If not reduced to zero or lower by an attack that does acid or fire ...." or you can only keep a troll down by causing exactly enough damage to leave it on exactly zero. As this is nonsense, then reduced to less than zero should be allowed, so being reduced to "even lower" (from -10 to -11 say) shoudl prevent the reanimation imo.
EDIT : NInja'd - that will teach me not to be so careful with my wording (or just to proofread faster)
You light the troll on fire while it is down and shift backwards to avoid burning (fair for this "light and move" to be a Standard Action, "improvised attack" imo) the effect of which is Ongoing Fire 5(save ends) and a 1 square zone of fire which does "If creature starts its turn in this zone it takes ongoing fire damage 5. If it already has an effect causing ongoing fire damage increase the damage by 5 and the target may not save against that effect (if a save would end it) this turn".
Thus starting its turn in the zone will cause it to increase its Ongoing Fire Damage (from the original lighting) to 10 and ensure it will kick in next turn = dead by fire = permanent. The net effect of this is, at worst, one round of stand up (with 10HP) and attack something in range atm then fall over at the start of next turn. So assuming the players don't stand next to the fire the net effect is stand up, shamble, die. As such just have it stay down.
Basically your DM should allow "hurt by fire while dead-ish" = don't get up. Especially as the property on the troll should really say "If not reduced to zero or lower by an attack that does acid or fire ...." or you can only keep a troll down by causing exactly enough damage to leave it on exactly zero. As this is nonsense, then reduced to less than zero should be allowed, so being reduced to "even lower" (from -10 to -11 say) shoudl prevent the reanimation imo.
EDIT : NInja'd - that will teach me not to be so careful with my wording (or just to proofread faster)
Will Doyle
Explorer
The latest troll from the Monster Vault clarifies the rule:
"Whenever an attack that doesn’t deal acid or fire damage reduces the troll to 0 hit points, the troll does not die and instead falls unconscious until the start of its next turn, when it returns to life with 15 hit points. If an attack hits the troll and deals any acid or fire damage while the troll is unconscious, it does not return to life in this way."
"Whenever an attack that doesn’t deal acid or fire damage reduces the troll to 0 hit points, the troll does not die and instead falls unconscious until the start of its next turn, when it returns to life with 15 hit points. If an attack hits the troll and deals any acid or fire damage while the troll is unconscious, it does not return to life in this way."
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